Microsoft just sank to a new low by shoving Edge down our throats

[Karlston]

Microsoft just sank to a new low by shoving Edge down our throats

It undermines Microsoft’s own argument that automatic updates are critical

Illustration by Alex Castro / The Verge

If I told you that my entire computer screen just got taken over by a new app that I’d never installed or asked for — it just magically appeared on my desktop, my taskbar, and preempted my next website launch — you’d probably tell me to run a virus scanner and stay away from shady websites, no?

 

But the insanely intrusive app I’m talking about isn’t a piece of ransomware. It’s Microsoft’s new Chromium Edge browser, which the company is now force-feeding users via an automatic update to Windows.

 

Seriously, when I restarted my Windows 10 desktop this week, an app I’d never asked for:

1. Immediately launched itself
2. Tried to convince me to migrate away from Chrome, giving me no discernible way to click away or say no
3. Pinned itself to my desktop and taskbar
4. Ignored my previous browser preference by asking me — the next time I launched a website — whether I was sure I wanted to use Chrome instead of Microsoft’s oh-so-humble recommendation.

 

 

Did I mention that, as of this update, you can’t uninstall Edge anymore?

 

It all immediately made me think: what would the antitrust enforcers of the ‘90s, who punished Microsoft for bundling Internet Explorer with Windows, think about this modern abuse of Microsoft’s platform?

 

 

 

But mostly, I’m surprised Microsoft would shoot itself in the foot by stooping so low, using tactics I’ve only ever seen from purveyors of adware, spyware, and ransomware. I installed this copy of Windows with a disk I purchased, by the way. Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I like to think I still own my desktop and get to decide what I put there.

 

That’s especially true of owners of Windows 7 and Windows 8, I imagine, who are also receiving unwanted gift copies of the new Edge right now:

 

 

And I’m not surprised that some angry Windows users are already railing against the fact that this came as part of a forced Windows update, which Microsoft has already had a damn hard time justifying without invading people’s desktops as well. It’s going to be harder to buy the argument that forced updates are necessary for security when they’re pulling double-duty as an intrusive marketing tool.

 

 

 

 

Heck, we can’t even get Americans to wear life-saving masks in public right now.

 

Microsoft isn’t trying to hide most of this, by the way: it lays out the so-called “First Run Experience” in this update changelog. So I figured I’d see if the company might say more. Here is a list of questions I sent Microsoft, which the company declined to substantively answer on the record or on background:

• What was the goal and reasoning here?
• Why does Microsoft feel that this is appropriate?
• Was it a success, and if so, by what metric?
• What does Microsoft’s telemetry show users are doing in response to being confronted with Edge pins, desktop icons, auto-launch, and reset default apps?
• Would Microsoft do this again?
• Will Microsoft stop this now, and/or change anything about this update?
• What is Microsoft’s philosophy on dark pattern software design?

The only justifications the company could provide me are that, technically, the new Edge is replacing the old Edge that already comes with Windows 10; Microsoft wants you to use the best, most secure version of its browser; and you can still say no — though in this case, a “no” involves force-closing Edge, reaffirming your default browser choice, and having to spend a minute deleting unwanted junk on your desktop.

Time to reaffirm the browser choice I already made years ago.

Here’s one more question: Microsoft, do you think this behavior makes Windows users actually want to try Edge?

 

Because if I’m being honest, after the initial shock wore off, I found Edge easy enough to ignore. The experience mostly just left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Before, I had actually been interested in this new Chromium-based version of Edge! I had been planning to check it out. I’ve been toying with Firefox and Opera for weeks now, considering a potential migration away from Chrome.

 

Now — as a user, not a journalist — I can’t help but feel like I should ignore Edge on principle. And if there’s a sizable fraction of users who feel the same, somebody inside Microsoft is facepalming hard right about now.

 

 

Microsoft just sank to a new low by shoving Edge down our throats

 

[steven36]

53 minutes ago, Karlston said:

Seriously, when I restarted my Windows 10 desktop this week, an app I’d never asked for:

1. Immediately launched itself
2. Tried to convince me to migrate away from Chrome, giving me no discernible way to click away or say no
3. Pinned itself to my desktop and taskbar
4. Ignored my previous browser preference by asking me — the next time I launched a website — whether I was sure I wanted to use Chrome instead of Microsoft’s oh-so-humble recommendation.

 

 

what did they  expect ?  Microsoft don't have a very good track record  about these  these  things I  wonder  how windows 95 users  must of  felt  that used Netscape when they 1st pushed  IE  out to them  and then poison the web  with  websites  that ran on Active X  so  you had no choice but to use IE because  other browsers would not work  the problem still remains today for old web sites that never upgraded to the modern web.   that's how they  won the 1st browser wars. windows users would still be using IE if it was not for them being sued  by the EU .

 

53 minutes ago, Karlston said:

Before, I had actually been interested in this new Chromium-based version of Edge! I had been planning to check it out. I’ve been toying with Firefox and Opera for weeks now, considering a potential migration away from Chrome.

 

LOL ,EDGE   is Chrome , Opera is Chrome to migrate  away from Chrome on Windows  there is  only  IE and Firefox   or  use a Fork of Firefox  . I been using Firefox and its forks  for 14 years  i never have used Google Chrome other than  just i tested it before   as far as chromium browsers in general  i only used them for a spare browser  i never made one default   and used it a lot  . If you didn't do as the masses do monkey see , monkey do you would not have to migrate because Firefox was around long  before Google chrome and Edge was .

[pintas]

Beats IE, right? I've actually grown very fond of it.

[steven36]

12 minutes ago, pintas said:

Beats IE, right? I've actually grown very fond of it.

Back when I used IE in the early 2000s   that was the last time it was a default browser of mine I  never had used nothing else Microsoft had  drove Netscape under by the time  i came online all the time in 2001 , Microsoft  set the Web Standards back then   . The only reason Microsoft shift to chrome was business adopted  it  and now Google sits the web standards  and Microsoft was being left behind , but just like  smartphones and other technologies Microsoft waited  to late to change the already a 100 different spins of Chromium so its just another Chrome browser that uses Microsoft services instead of Googles . nether one have a very good track record  with being defenders of your privacy. As far as Google they no were near as bad  as Microsoft  was  when they sit the web standards    at lest  Googles engine  is open source and anyone can fork  it  .  IE  is closed source so no one could make a browser like it that used Active X  so no one stood a chance so it took  Government  intervention to put a end to there  ruling the WEB !

[pintas]

3 minutes ago, steven36 said:

Back when I used IE in the early 2000s   that was the last time it was a default browser of mine I  never had used nothing else Microsoft had  drove Netscape under by the time  i came online all the time in 2001 , Microsoft  set the Web Standards back then   . The only reason Microsoft shift to chrome was business adopted  it  and now Google sits the web standards  and Microsoft was being left behind , but just like  smartphones and other technologies Microsoft waited  to late to change the already a 100 different spins of Chromium so its just another Chrome browser that uses Microsoft services instead of Googles . nether one have a very good track record  with being defenders of your privacy. As far as Google they no were near as bad  as Microsoft  was  when they sit the web standards    at lest  Googles engine  is open source and anyone can fork  it  .  IE  is closed source so no one could make a browser like it that used Active X  so no one stood a chance so it took  Government  intervention to put a end to there  ruling the WEB !

ahahah i guess we're about the same age 😅

[SPECTRUM]

this article is stupid, Edge is part of Window 10 but being deprecated and replaced by the new Edge, so obviously is being updated because due the old Edge is not maintained anymore and could be vulnerable.

[steven36]

1 minute ago, pintas said:

ahahah i guess we're about the same age 😅

By the time I came online  I already had been married  a few years and had a kid and i did not get married tell i was 25 ,

 

3 minutes ago, SPECTRUM said:

this article is stupid, Edge is part of Window 10 but being deprecated and replaced by the new Edge, so obviously is being updated because due the old Edge is not maintained anymore and could be vulnerable.

  Microsoft have been baking in there  Browsers since a update in windows 95 they  got sued  by the  EU for baking browsers in . The was a special version of Windows 7 for the EU with no IE .    Since there no longer a monopoly because only 8 percent of desktop users uses Edge  they  are back to there old tricks and baking in browsers again world wide in Windows 10.

 

Windows 7 to be shipped in Europe without Internet Explorer

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/06/windows-7-to-be-shipped-in-europe-sans-internet-explorer/

 

So the journalist  has a right to be angry about after they was sued for it and going back to there evil ways but  most pirated  copies was not that version of windows 7 it always shipped  with IE  in the rest of the world besides the  EU.

 

[SPECTRUM]

18 minutes ago, steven36 said:

Microsoft have been baking in there  Browsers since a update in windows 95 they  got sued  by the  EU for baking browsers in . The was a special version of Windows 7 for the EU with no IE .    Since there no longer a monopoly because only 8 percent of desktop users uses Edge  they  are back to there old tricks and baking in browsers again world wide in Windows 10.

 

Windows 7 to be shipped in Europe without Internet Explorer

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/06/windows-7-to-be-shipped-in-europe-sans-internet-explorer/

 

So the journalist  has a right to be angry about after they was sued for it and going back to there evil ways but  most pirated  copies was not that version of windows 7 it always shipped  with IE  in the rest of the world besides the  EU.

 

 

I know that history, but for me is like complaining for Android being with Chrome or iOS being with Safari.

[steven36]

22 minutes ago, SPECTRUM said:

 

I know that history, but for me is like complaining for Android being with Chrome or Apple being with Safari.

Google was also sued  in the EU  a few years ago for baking in chrome and other services , It up to the smartphone vendor  if they want  to pay Google  for the use of  some of there services or take the free  Google version and  IOS  don't have enough users in the EU to be a monopoly  so they not been sued  for like Google  and Microsoft  has.

[Karlston]

The problem is that Microsoft doesn't practice what it itself preaches.

 

They pretend to be Apple by telling users that they care about their privacy, and then they pull these evil intrusive GWX-like stunts. Again and again.

 

Microsoft says that Windows 7 isn't good enough to provide even security updates to any more, but a new version of Edge? Yup, that needs to be rammed down their throats. Of course with the added bonus of yet another annoying Windows 10 ad nag.

 

The sad thing is that Microsoft knows they can get away with this.  Over and over. And if they're ever chastised by any organisation with clout, they promptly apologise, whitewash it by blaming it on some BS communication issue, confusion or similar nonsense, let the dust settle, and then do it again.

 

A notification to users telling them there's a new version of Edge, with an install button and a "Don't remind me again" button/checkbox is reasonable.  But as history shows, reasonable is not the Microsoft way.

 

The last part of the article is important. This stunt will convince many potential Edge users to avoid it like the plague, in the same way that Microsoft's infamous GWX campaign put so many off Windows 10.

 

54 minutes ago, SPECTRUM said:

for me is like complaining for Android being with Chrome or iOS being with Safari.

 

Not really, I have no problem with Edge being the default Microsoft OS browser. What Microsoft has done here is way past reasonable and is just plain disrespectful, IMO. Imagine if Mozilla or Apple had done this uninvited force-feeding with their browsers...

[steven36]

LOL  I use Ubuntu  i don't have EDGE  or Google Chrome problem in order for me to have a problem I must install Google  Chrome , M$ still never done Linux version yet  which makes them odd balls since everyone else but apple makes Linux browsers.    My  flavor came with open source chromium  that  can be uninstalled   and you can use  something else many  come with Firefox instead.   All OS should come with a browser that  the  vendor  put in it or at lest a  option to install  what ever you want like EU windows 7 had  and Linux has with there software mangers .

 

But  the EU done ruled  that it illegal for  Microsoft  to bake in browsers and there breaking the EU  law. Just Like when  the EU  got after M$ for breaking  EU  privacy laws  Microsoft just put up  some smoke  and Mirrors  for the consumer versions  to turn off all data collection  you have to have a newer enterprise version so Microsoft can do what ever they please with home users  privacy  and  stability because also there  being forced to use  and test beta versions of Windows 10 not ready  for business yet . By the time it ready for business consumers are being pushed off to the next  version . the problem being Anti trust laws in the EU don't  protect  the consumer only they out to protect  business.

[SPECTRUM]

47 minutes ago, Karlston said:

A notification to users telling them there's a new version of Edge, with an install button and a "Don't remind me again" button/checkbox is reasonable.  But as history shows, reasonable is not the Microsoft way.

 

because that "don't remind me again" is not a good idea for security in the current times (with most of the PCs connected to Internet), except that someone wants to repeat again a big vulnerability issue like "WannaCry" or "BlueKeep" just because some persons choosed to not install updates anymore, so, specially when the Classic Edge can't be uninstalled by the majority of the users, it needs be updated to the most recent one for obvious reasons, thats all.

[steven36]

11 minutes ago, SPECTRUM said:

 

because that "don't remind me again" is not a good idea for security in the current times (with most of the PCs connected to Internet), except that someone wants to repeat again a big vulnerability issue like "WannaCry" just because some persons choosed to not install updates anymore, so, specially when the Classic Edge can't be uninstalled by the majority of the users, it needs be updated to the most recent one for obvious reasons, thats all.

They will just find a big hole in Chromium to exploit , browsers are the most vulnerable part of a desktop  system  because there users use them ,more than anything else .No browser is without there  share of 0 days . As far  as classic EDGE nobody much used it so it could not of been a big threat .The more  people use  something the threat risk goes up and hackers look for ways in .

[SPECTRUM]

1 minute ago, steven36 said:

They will just find a big hole in Chromium to exploit browsers are the most vulnerable part of a desktop  system  because there users use them ,more tan anything else .No browser is without there  share of 0 days .

 

of course, and the same thing can happens if the Chrome users choose to not update it.

[steven36]

11 minutes ago, SPECTRUM said:

 

of course, and the same thing can happens if the Chrome users choose to not update it.

Microsoft was patching against 0 days in  classic Edge  and they still patch against  them in IE  , the problem  with wantacry  had nothing to do with Microsoft not patching against exploits  ,  Virus use to be much worse the hackers found there way in thorough   XP Windows Firewall  pre service pack 2 . It always been a problem . sometimes holes in OS be present  for 8 years  before found and  patched. i'm sure the NSA not sharing any because that the reason wantacry  exist a bunch of idiots  posted on the internet  that stole it's virus from the NSA. 

[SPECTRUM]

the problem with WannaCry / BlueKeep and few other related vulnerabilitis happened just because in the affected computers the Windows Updates were not installed, for example WannaCry was already patched in March 2017 and the affected computers were infected in May 2017 just because Windows Updates were not installed.

[steven36]

17 minutes ago, SPECTRUM said:

the problem with WannaCry / BlueKeep and few other related vulnerabilitis happened just because in the affected computers the Windows Updates were not installed, for example WannaCry was already patched in March 2017 and the affected computers were infected in May 2017 just because Windows Updates were not installed.

Yes that was the end users fault not Microsoft  you can lead a horse to water   but you can't make them drink ,  But them deciding to force updates on users was thought up long before wanacry  . I really have no beef  with them forcing security  updates  because i always been a responsible user that installed them myself without them forcing me too  ,the beef i have is them forcing buggy quality updates and new versions of  there software without getting the  bugs out 1st . 

 

People used  XP  for 14 years  with only 3 SP and security  updates  , Vista  2 SP , Windows 7 1 SP  and Windows 8 1 SP that's Windows 8.1 for 10 years they no excuse for the abuse they putting on Windows 10 users , virus been around since the 80s they not something new and they far less now than they ever was before  because of security updates and antivirus have killed them out over the years. 

[SPECTRUM]

of couse is users fault, but also is Microsoft responsability considering these computers could also affect other computers with same OS, that's why security updates are now mandatory in most of the OS, but sadly there is still people that thinks they are safe withuout updating anything, and they could be using a botnet / zombie PC without knowing about it, and affecting others PC, doing ddos attacks, sending spam, etc.

[steven36]

33 minutes ago, SPECTRUM said:

of couse is users fault, but also is Microsoft responsability considering these computers could also affect other computers with same OS, that's why security updates are now mandatory in most of the OS, but sadly there is still people that thinks they are safe withuout updating anything, and they could be using a botnet / zombie PC without knowing about it, and affecting others PC, doing ddos attacks,  sending spam, etc.

Don't speak  to me about responsibility and Microsoft,  it was Microsoft choice  not to patch against exploits in Windows XP   and now  Windows 7 when many people don't want to use Windows 10  putting consumers  at risk while giving business a option to buy updates .Home users on windows get shitted on every way they turn   maybe one day they will see the light  and switch to another OS like i did were updates don't brick your system.

 

What people use Microsoft  don't control that  and XP  was proof of that because people  dont use  a OS they use software  on a OS  it was not tell many years latter after eol and  3rd party software updates stop happening  they left  XP  and some of them are  on Windows 7  now and some of them switch to mobile OS instead  . It was much cheaper for them to go out and buy a phone than  a windows 10 PC. Android and IOS  is also proof  of Microsoft don't control what consumers use  that why  they mainly are focused on windows for business.They not sold much to home users since Windows 7 was new and Apple and Google came out with smartphones

[SPECTRUM]

talking about security for me is the same with any OS, for example even if you use an older version of Linux or Unix with an older Kernel version and with outdated libraries/dependencies or apps, you are exposed to vulnerabilities if you are connected to local network or Internet.

 

so for me is OK is some people wants to use olders OS (and use it offline), but please don't connect these machines to any local network or Internet xD

[steven36]

1 hour ago, SPECTRUM said:

talking about security for me is the same with any OS, for example even if you use an older version of Linux or Unix with an older Kernel version and with outdated libraries/dependencies or apps, you are exposed to vulnerabilities if you are connected to local network or Internet.

 

so for me is OK is some people wants to use olders OS (and use it offline), but please don't connect these machines to any local network or Internet xD

Not really  because Windows Virus cant live  in Linux   they is Linux malware but it not very common ,  while Linux gets more patches most stuff patched  on Linux is not high risk   of being exploteed  while on windows  lots of stuff is . Vulnerabilities are rated by  low , medium and high. I never used a real time antivirus on Linux  i only have a on demand  one  . Nothing  like wanacry ever happen on Linux  . Many Linux servers  that power the internet never shut down  for anything that why we have have live patching now were you can update without rebooting .

 

The worse thing i ever see happen on Linux desktop was a supply chain  attack on Linux Mint 17.3  were someone hack there site and replaced  the  ISO   with one that contained Linux malware . They fixed the problem fast and beefed up there site security after that .   IOT devices  and Android that use Linux that are slow about or don't get updates are more problematic . But doing updates  are never a problem on Linux  you can still update manually  or you can do unattended  auto updates      and you can set up live patching and never have to reboot  for Linux kernel updates . It's the end users choice.

[SPECTRUM]

basically I was talking about the things that happens when kernel/libraries/dependencies/apps are not updated in any OS, and vulnerabilities are in any OS, for example in 2015 some Linux distributions were affected by GHOST vulnerability in glibc that is from 2000 and patched in 2013, but some distributions were still using the older and vulnerable version of glibc, or in some cases the users never installed the Linux updated for that lib.

[Karlston]

6 hours ago, SPECTRUM said:

because that "don't remind me again" is not a good idea for security in the current times (with most of the PCs connected to Internet), except that someone wants to repeat again a big vulnerability issue like "WannaCry" or "BlueKeep" just because some persons choosed to not install updates anymore, so, specially when the Classic Edge can't be uninstalled by the majority of the users, it needs be updated to the most recent one for obvious reasons, thats all.

 

I agree, if it's security related and for an installed product.

 

But when Microsoft rolls out Edge updates to systems that don't have Edge of any age installed, to systems that Microsoft says are no longer supported, questions the user's choice of browser, pins it to task bar and desktop, and spams other products, that IMO is crossing the line. Several times.

 

11 hours ago, Karlston said:

If I told you that my entire computer screen just got taken over by a new app that I’d never installed or asked for

 

11 hours ago, Karlston said:

That’s especially true of owners of Windows 7 and Windows 8, I imagine, who are also receiving unwanted gift copies of the new Edge right now

 

11 hours ago, Karlston said:

Seriously, when I restarted my Windows 10 desktop this week, an app I’d never asked for:

1. Immediately launched itself
2. Tried to convince me to migrate away from Chrome, giving me no discernible way to click away or say no
3. Pinned itself to my desktop and taskbar
4. Ignored my previous browser preference by asking me — the next time I launched a website — whether I was sure I wanted to use Chrome instead of Microsoft’s oh-so-humble recommendation.

 

An update I hid a week or two ago, not the one being discussed here AFAIK...

 

https://imgur.com/oS3tSa

 

—-

 

Remind me Microsoft... why do I need this update (in the "Important" group) to something I neither have installed nor want...

[cosy]

That is why I'm still running Windows 95 as my main OS 😄

[steven36]

5 hours ago, SPECTRUM said:

basically I was talking about the things that happens when kernel/libraries/dependencies/apps are not updated in any OS, and vulnerabilities are in any OS, for example in 2015 some Linux distributions were affected by GHOST vulnerability in glibc that is from 2000 and patched in 2013, but some distributions were still using the older and vulnerable version of glibc, or in some cases the users never installed the Linux updated for that lib.

Look with all  the exploits  they find in  a lab , they 1000s of them  only  5.5% of vulnerabilities are ever exploited in the  wild  and the ones that are exploited have a  CVSS severity score of 9 or 10. Most stuff found on Linux are ether low or medium . That means  patching  is 94% tinfoil hat on all OS .

Source : Only 5.5% of all vulnerabilities are ever exploited in the wild

https://www.zdnet.com/article/only-5-5-of-all-vulnerabilities-are-ever-exploited-in-the-wild/

 

I'm not recommending  not to patch  because you never know  when  one may fall into that 5,5% , I'm saying  most  stuff  like the endless  patches for side channel attacks that never been exploited  in the  wild that slow down your PC  do more harm than good.  Even on Windows  10 they been patches forced  on users  that caused regressions  and  they don't give users a choice if  the vulnerabilities have a low chance  of ever being exploited it's like they think windows users are little babies  that need spoon fed windows updates.

 

On Linux  at least we still  have a choice if we want to auto update or not and we can blacklist any software update we deem fit to do so  as long as its native software packages and not snaps .  the whole concept  of Linux LTS  is not updating  your software unless a security problem  is found  and that still don't mean you will get a new version most of the time you don't  they  backport the fix to the version you have already .  you have a choice to check for updates yourself and it never check for auto updates or to let  it check it to check for updates every two weeks , every week , or every two days  ,or daily .