Nine killed in lorry 'attack' on Berlin Christmas market

[ThisPC666]

33 minutes ago, anselmo said:

My point of view is that some good people speak uo, others live in fear and stay silent. The Syrian refugees come from the frontline of a very ugly war. Most of them are powerless. Yet they have spoken after the terrorist attack.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/20/refugees-plead-germans-christmas-market-attack

If we help them, not only we will be doing the right thing, but we will also counteract the message of hate and war that ISIS (Daesh) and other groups are trying to propagate.

 

precisely, they fear their lives. that alone already dispels the claim that, that particular ideology is an ideology of peace. 

 

that fear really speaks volume.

 

if It is an ideology of peace, how come MAJORITY of its adherences are afraid to speak up. are afraid of condemning their own leaders? 

 

does that simple logic make sense? 

 

the problem is the Ideology. where do you think ISIS and all other islamic jihadists groups base their justifications of what they are doing?

it doesnt matter how many of them peaceful normal people condemn ISIS and such. if they do not condemn the SOURCE. it will be an endless cycle. 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html

[anselmo]

Many Muslim people are able to speak without fear, but also unfortunately many are unable to do so because they are opressed. Muslim faith can be a source of peace or war, and as a religion is not a single ideology. It has many different interpretations around the world, as Christianlty does. Saudi Arabia doesn;t represent the whole of the Muslim world. ISIS does a very narrow and skewed translation of their religion, and no matter how terrible their actions are, they are failing to persuade the majority of Muslims to follow their inhuman views.

One could justify war using any other religions or ideologies too, just by focusing on the parts that justify it and ignoring the parts that forbid it. ISIS have already an agenda, and they are tailoring religion to their own means. Saudi Arabia is an autocracy and they use religion to impose their rule over the people.

Let's try to focus more on the positive within the Muslim faith and culture now, and in the past. There is plenty. You also can find lots of good ideas in the other religions, atheism, capitalism and communism. But all of them are prone to manipulation, opression and intolerance.

[BALTAGY]

58 minutes ago, anselmo said:

Many Muslim people are able to speak without fear, but also unfortunately many are unable to do so because they are opressed. Muslim faith can be a source of peace or war, and as a religion is not a single ideology. It has many different interpretations around the world, as Christianlty does. Saudi Arabia doesn;t represent the whole of the Muslim world. ISIS does a very narrow and skewed translation of their religion, and no matter how terrible their actions are, they are failing to persuade the majority of Muslims to follow their inhuman views.

One could justify war using any other religions or ideologies too, just by focusing on the parts that justify it and ignoring the parts that forbid it. ISIS have already an agenda, and they are tailoring religion to their own means. Saudi Arabia is an autocracy and they use religion to impose their rule over the people.

Let's try to focus more on the positive within the Muslim faith and culture now, and in the past. There is plenty. You also can find lots of good ideas in the other religions, atheism, capitalism and communism. But all of them are prone to manipulation, opression and intolerance.

Let me correct and explain some things:

 

There's no religion that tell people to start a war or kill innocent people, what happen is as you said it's an agenda plus some people that understand things wrong on religions by mistake or on purpose

 

About Muslims can speak and explain, simply you can't explain everything in politics or religion, look at Libya or Syria when people started a revolution on bad governments both country's are gone

 

Alot of Muslims trying to explain about Islam is too far from what ISIS or others doing but how to explain if the other side can't see what's happening in your side and all he can see is he's media that keep telling him that Muslims doing this all over the world

 

How you explain that most our governments are corrupted and in politics they play dirty like creating a group like ISIS for purpose, if you talk to anyone and tell him your government is corrupted you will get a bad replay and i see things like this everywhere so simply i ignore to comment, i know my self and i know my religion and i know that the media and governments are all corrupted

 

In Syria there's many parts involved now but also the president Bashar killed many innocent people and he's still killing and no country is doing anything to prevent it, and if you believe what i said above you will know why ( It's all a part of a game and it's going fine )

 

As i said before in Quran we have something that means killing one innocent whatever he's religion is like killing all humanity, So ISIS is killing too much innocent people including Muslims what that show us ?

 

In a simple way terrorism have no religion but he use religion for a reasons you may know some of it by the time and by trying to find out the truth but you will never see the full picture because your out of the game

 

Muslims is like everyone else there's religious people and there's not you can't take a bad example and make it a rule for all others also there's people that understand the religion right and there's people that get lost

 

I did that simple explain in general and didn't point it to a particular person, but my advice to everyone don't ever judge something without reading the source of it, if you want to judge Christianity simply read the bible

[ThisPC666]

1 hour ago, anselmo said:

Many Muslim people are able to speak without fear, but also unfortunately many are unable to do so because they are opressed. Muslim faith can be a source of peace or war, and as a religion is not a single ideology. It has many different interpretations around the world, as Christianlty does. Saudi Arabia doesn;t represent the whole of the Muslim world. ISIS does a very narrow and skewed translation of their religion, and no matter how terrible their actions are, they are failing to persuade the majority of Muslims to follow their inhuman views.

One could justify war using any other religions or ideologies too, just by focusing on the parts that justify it and ignoring the parts that forbid it. ISIS have already an agenda, and they are tailoring religion to their own means. Saudi Arabia is an autocracy and they use religion to impose their rule over the people.

Let's try to focus more on the positive within the Muslim faith and culture now, and in the past. There is plenty. You also can find lots of good ideas in the other religions, atheism, capitalism and communism. But all of them are prone to manipulation, opression and intolerance.

 

Saudi does represent the majority. 90% of muslims are sunnis and majority or if not all of these jihadists groups are sunnis. ever wonder why that is the case? also Saudi really does represent the majority since its actively funding on building mosque and islamic schools world wide with teachings that adheres to saudis core doctrine which is wahabism. which is the doctrine that is adhered by ISIS and those other extremists. and majority of ISIS are from Saudi. 

 

lets stop beating around the bush. imagine catholic, protestant or other christian denomination priests or religious leaders preach the same way majority of islamic preacher does. we will definitely see groups of catholic/christian religious terrorist groups actively terrorizing others and bunch of suicide bombers. but do we see that currently? NO. religious terrorism is only prevalent in the islamic world. ever wonder why? 

 

like i previously said on my other post. the first step to solving the problem is to admit that there is a problem. 

there are several muslim honest intellectuals in the middle east who admits that their culture is backwards and needs reformation. if these muslims themselves are honest enough to admit that indeed there is a problem, why is it so difficult for the rest of us to admit that. 

 

i am from the philippines and we are about to have problems with islamic fundamentalism in fact its the entire Southeast Asia... and we all know what comes next from fundamentalism... thats extremism. the likes of ISIS. 

 

in my city, the our Police here created a task force that is focused on counter radicalization. the cops involved were muslims themselves, they were interviewed one time and they said they are having difficulties talking to muslims in the community because they still have to ask permission from the imam or religious leader of that community. 

 

you know what some imams here are teaching to muslims? they "INSTRUCT" note word i use is Instruct because thats what it is. it is a form of command, you follow what is instructed. they instruct muslims to not to mingle, associate, integrate with the rest of the society. the same way they do in europe, australia and the rest of the world. despite of these very divisive and hateful teachings, i have yet to hear, muslim leaders in my city condemning these imams. never have i heard them do that. 

 

and just to give you a perspective, when some catholic priest criticized our President for his policies, the catholics themselves defended the president and openly condem their own church and priest for meddling in politics. so you see, that is just one of the biggest difference between the two. to make a comparison of the two is just false equivalency. 

 

 

take this guy for example: are the peaceful majority going to support and agree with this guy? i sincerely doubt that. cause he is pointing out that the problem is the source itself. and thus needed reformation, just like what the catholic church did with the council of nicea.

 

Amr Adeeb: "you would not be exploited if you do not harbor this ideology, how come they do not exploit other religions?" 

 

keyword is exploit. 

 

 

 

 

 

[ThisPC666]

1 hour ago, BALTAGY said:

 

 

As i said before in Quran we have something that means killing one innocent whatever he's religion is like killing all humanity, So ISIS is killing too much innocent people including Muslims what that show us ?

 

 

with due respect. the Quranic verse is 5:32 and its been debunk as it was quoted out of context. 

 

Quote

 

Here is 5:32 in its context, with all words included:

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person -unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

 

clearly that verse was pertaining to the jews. so yeah.

 

with regards to ISIS killings muslims aswell, well you need to ask yourself, which muslims are they killing? remember, ISIS are Sunnis and majority are from Saudi. so which muslim groups are they killing? it all boils down to sectarian violence. muslim on muslim. Sunni vs Shia and other indigenous minorities. 

 

the several suicide bombings, like the one in Iraq outside a mall which killed hundreds, the area was a Shia majority and some Christians in it.

 

 

 

 

[BALTAGY]

1 hour ago, ThisPC666 said:

 

with due respect. the Quranic verse is 5:32 and its been debunk as it was quoted out of context. 

 

 

clearly that verse was pertaining to the jews. so yeah.

 

with regards to ISIS killings muslims aswell, well you need to ask yourself, which muslims are they killing? remember, ISIS are Sunnis and majority are from Saudi. so which muslim groups are they killing? it all boils down to sectarian violence. muslim on muslim. Sunni vs Shia and other indigenous minorities. 

 

the several suicide bombings, like the one in Iraq outside a mall which killed hundreds, the area was a Shia majority and some Christians in it.

 

 

 

 

I didn't understand the quote you did, can you explain

 

For ISIS, they simply don't care about Sunni vs Shia, in Egypt they killing Muslims without knowing knowing where do they belong, also they bombing places with many Muslims and Christians

 

If you want to know what's going on take it step by step

 

1- See if Islam as a religion is telling Muslims to kill non Muslims

2- If not then from where groups like ISIS got that if they don't follow Islam and Quran

etc

 

Let me tell you again there's two things

1- Politics game that they involved Islam as religion on it

2- People that don't understand the religion right

 

Note that above two points each one is too big to talk about, But at the end there's no religion ( Islam, Christian, Jewish ) is telling people to kill innocent people or non believers

 

Let me give you a personal example

 

To me i don't trust anyone to learn from, i try hard to choose carefully so i don't get the wrong explanation and that's what a page like the page who shared this video you posted above is doing

 

About the video Amr adeeb is from Egypt and i'm Egyptian and i'm telling you how to take an opinion from someone who is already politically corrupted and a lair not only that also he's not the one who have a good info to talk about religion like a priest for example?!

 

Trust me if you follow the media that want to hate something you will hate it, and if you follow the media that want you to love the same thing you will love it, that's the media these day's

 

Also i agree with you about if you want to fix a problem you need to admit it first, So

 

Let's admit a few facts

 

1- Governments is corrupted most of them and what's happening now is simply a war between corrupted governments that use anything to make people hate each other

2- Most humanity is not good these day's and good people is decreasing day after day, and that's in everything even in religion

3- Depends on point two you will see alot of non good people that teach others wrong info about their religion on purpose or wrong understanding like the people you talking about in your country ( There's nothing in Islam say that )

 

How to fix it, I really don't know because i see 99% of people chooses sides ( In religion, In politics, In life )

 

If you talking about the problem is Islam it self not the people then at least before you give this opinion read Quran and if you want some trusted info i can give you a name for someone talking English, but giving opinion about a book from it's cover not right

 

Most Muslims here are against ISIS and who like them

[Xionic]

let me add a little bit to what my brother said:

first of all..u only need a little bit of common sense to relies that what the world is going through now is not a (religion.vs.religion) and that those outlaws murders so-called (islamic state) are nothing but (misleading dark force)

 

3 of most important elements that our religion relies on are

 

1-you don't enforce your religion to other individuals..that is probably the most important element

 

2-u don't get to judge on people whether they were from other religions or even atheist..thats a god thing

 

3-when it comes to jihad..we follow very strict and ethical rules that encourage us to take peaceful actions even in the darkest times which is the meantime should be only defensive since the religion is already wide spread..makes it easy to tell the difference between (the real Jihad) and whats happening now which is a (Pure Evil-Terrisom)

 

another beautiful fact about islam that is the meaning of the word (islam or أسلام) in arabic grammer is (Surrender) meaning that u surrende your mind and all of your five senses to god nothing but him

 

in quran god looked to Jesus (peace upon him) and to any other prophet and messenger he sent as muslim because they followed him and gave him there mind and all of there five senses ..and so is those who truly follow them ;)

 

last but not least i hope people will stop staring to the tv and judge us instantly after..and they would give it a little bit of thinking..just a tiny bit

 

that is we didn't became what we became..with 1.5 billion of this religion by killing innocents people and crashing planes to buildings

 

Merry christmas and happy new year everybody