Retaliatory cyber attacks are only way to stop China, says former FBI director

[steven36]

Former FBI director Louis Freeh says launching cyber attacks back at China is the only way to stop it hacking commercial secrets

 

 

Targeted cyber attacks and a strong deterrence capability are the most effective way of preventing China and other countries continuing to steal Australian commercial secrets, according to a former director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

 

Louis Freeh, who ran the FBI for almost eight years until 2001, said the threat of criminal charges or jail time would do little to prevent state-sponsored hackers from continuing to steal valuable intellectual property.

 

"It's like trying to serve a subpoena on [Osama] Bin Laden – it's not very effective," Mr Freeh said on the sidelines of a speech in Sydney on Monday night.

 

His comments come as the federal government considers how best to respond to a surge in cyber attacks directed by China's peak security agency over the past year.

 

An investigation by The Australian Financial Review and Nine News confirmed China's Ministry of State Security (MSS), was responsible for the recent wave of attacks on Australian companies. These formed part of what is known in cyber circles as "Operation Cloud Hopper", which was detected by Australia and its partners in the Five Eyes intelligence sharing alliance.

 

The attacks on Australian companies are in breach of an agreement struck between Premier Li Keqiang and former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull in April 2017 to not steal each other's commercial secrets.

 

Filing criminal charges against Chinese hackers, as the US has done over the past year, is one option open to Australia, although Mr Freeh believes a formidable cyber deterrence capability is the best defence.

 

Mr Freeh likened offensive cyber capabilities to the doctrine of mutually assured destruction during the Cold War, which he said ultimately prevented nuclear weapons being used.

 

"All the major powers, including Australia, they know the [cyber] capacity of their adversaries," he said. "They can assess pretty accurately the capacity of their adversaries and allies and that is the single most reason why we have not seen a cyber war …. it's the same reason nobody has fired a nuclear weapon in 75 years."

 

Mr Freeh said countries had the capability to shut down power grids, transport networks and financial systems, but had not done so as it would potentially trigger a far larger retaliatory attack.

He said offensive cyber capabilities had been used after attacks in the past, but the response was proportionate.

 

"We've seen enough attacks that have given countries the basis to retaliate and they have in many cases, but the retaliation, if you look at it from 30,000 feet, is very proportionate and very measured given the initial attack." 

 

Malcolm Turnbull acknowledged Canberra's offensive cyber capabilities in April 2016, but few other countries have followed this lead.

 

Since that announcement the government said the capability has been used against Islamic State in the Middle East, while also revealing it has established an information warfare division with the Australian Defence Force.

 

"Governments routinely engage in a wide spectrum of cyber operations, and researchers have identified more than 100 states with military and intelligence cyber units," Fergus Hanson and Tom Uren said in a report for the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

 

Source

 

[Sylence]

Viva China!

[steven36]

Lol  lame  governments  that don't have enough sense to invent there own  technology  so they have to  steal from the west  (clone world )cheap  imitations that most likely catch on fire and have before. and get hacked back for doing it.   They don't even have nothing  the West would be interested in stealing  because everything they have the west invented it .and have already.All stealing  does is stagnate  technology and is why noting  new anyone would want has came out  since they invited Android . All these countries made claims they was going stop using Windows , etc , etc ,etc  and never have heck Microsoft got a search engine in China even. . It's makes it  look like  they would still  be in the dark ages if they didn't (clone ) steal other peoples ideas. Now  cyber espionage is a whole other ball game and is tit for tat ,

[Sylence]

10 minutes ago, steven36 said:

Lol  lame  governments  that don't have enough sense to invent there own  technology  so they have to  steal from the west  (clone world )cheap  imitations that most likely catch on fire and have before. and get hacked back for doing it.   They don't even have nothing  the West would be interested in stealing  because everything they have the west invented it .and have already.All stealing  does is stagnate  technology and is why noting  new anyone would want has came out  since they invited Android .. Now  cyber espionage is a whole other ball game and is tit for tat ,

 

they have brain, something the west is looking for. only a tiny percent of american companies are run by american people. ,,

they have their own supercomputers which until few months ago was the best in the world, and they made it 0 to 100 by themselves, CPU everything, and if they feel the need they will make a better one.

[steven36]

13 minutes ago, Sylence said:

 

they have brain, something the west is looking for. only a tiny percent of american companies are run by american people. ,,

they have their own supercomputers which until few months ago was the best in the world, and they made it 0 to 100 by themselves, CPU everything, and if they feel the need they will make a better one.

Only reason they have super computers is because we went over there and tech them how to make them , We traded with them for 17 years so i know what happen always the US takes advantage of cheap labor even inside the USA they do.   . The US , France and  The UK had coumpters since the 1950s and  had internet  . It was not tell the 1980s they made the WWW and  made it public to the world. Before the  WWW   the internet was called  ARPANET,

[Sylence]

4 minutes ago, steven36 said:

Only reason they have super computers is because we went over there and tech them how to make them , We traded with them for 17 years so i know what happen always the US takes advantage of cheap labor even inside the USA they do.   . The US , France and  The UK had coumpters since the 1950s and  had internet  . It was not tell the 1980s they made the WWW and  made it public to the world.

 

if they had felt the need for such thing they would've made it, but they aren't warmongers like us government. internet was made for military purposes at first. you think us teaches the whole world LOL when i posted list of companies ran by Iranians in us they deleted my status update, all this just proves me my points are right.

[steven36]

47 minutes ago, Sylence said:

 

if they had felt the need for such thing they would've made it, but they aren't warmongers like us government. internet was made for military purposes at first. you think us teaches the whole world LOL when i posted list of companies ran by Iranians in us they deleted my status update, all this just proves me my points are right.

 

Super computers   were invented by Big  Tech the idea started  in the 1920s by IBM in the USA .
 

Quote

 

The history of supercomputing goes back to the early 1920s in the United States with the IBM tabulators at Columbia University and a series of computers at Control Data Corporation (CDC), designed by Seymour Cray to use innovative designs and parallelism to achieve superior computational peak performance.[1] The CDC 6600, released in 1964, is generally considered the first supercomputer.[2][3] However, some earlier computers were considered supercomputers for their day, such as the 1960 UNIVAC LARC[4], the 1954 IBM NORC[5], and the IBM 7030 Stretch[6] and the Atlas, both in 1962.

While the supercomputers of the 1980s used only a few processors, in the 1990s, machines with thousands of processors began to appear both in the United States and in Japan, setting new computational performance records.

By the end of the 20th century, massively parallel supercomputers with thousands of "off-the-shelf" processors similar to those found in personal computers were constructed and broke through the teraflop computational barrier.

Progress in the first decade of the 21st century was dramatic and supercomputers with over 60,000 processors appeared, reaching petaflop performance levels.

 

 

China  did not  do a startup for  Super computers tell after  the www   in  1989 it was long after we went over there  and started all those Computer plants they built one that was the fastest but.  Once they got good at in 2012, producing a line of totally Chinese-made supercomputers that reach petaflop speeds.  If you clone something over and over you end up with the most of something.

 

The one China made in 2016 is pretty fast only 2  have been made since then one by China one by the USA in 2018  are way more powerful than the older petaflop  ones ,   The 1st one to make a computer that could do petaflop was in 2008  IBM Roadrunner , China  made one that  could do it 2 years latter .

 

In fact the 1st Computer  China ever had was  a gift to China from the US  made by  Dr. Samuel H. Caldwell  in 1959 the conceptual and technical framework that Caldwell and his team had laid down would remain foundational for Chinese computing well into the 1980s . They even cloned that.. So China  had computers but they were still in the dark ages tell free trade  and the www came along.  So what you say don't even make  any sense .

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/09/autocomplete-was-invented-80-years-ago/499955/

[Sylence]

15 hours ago, steven36 said:

 

Super computers   were invented by Big  Tech the idea started  in the 1920s by IBM in the USA .
 

 

China  did not  do a startup for  Super computers tell after  the www   in  1989 it was long after we went over there  and started all those Computer plants they built one that was the fastest but.  Once they got good at in 2012, producing a line of totally Chinese-made supercomputers that reach petaflop speeds.  If you clone something over and over you end up with the most of something.

 

The one China made in 2016 is pretty fast only 2  have been made since then one by China one by the USA in 2018  are way more powerful than the older petaflop  ones ,   The 1st one to make a computer that could do petaflop was in 2008  IBM Roadrunner , China  made one that  could do it 2 years latter .

 

In fact the 1st Computer  China ever had was  a gift to China from the US  made by  Dr. Samuel H. Caldwell  in 1959 the conceptual and technical framework that Caldwell and his team had laid down would remain foundational for Chinese computing well into the 1980s . They even cloned that.. So China  had computers but they were still in the dark ages tell free trade  and the www came along.  So what you say don't even make  any sense .

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/09/autocomplete-was-invented-80-years-ago/499955/

 

doesn't matter who started them. technology is not something to belong to one specific person or nation.

[steven36]

1 hour ago, Sylence said:

 

doesn't matter who started them. technology is not something to belong to one specific person or nation.

No it don't,  but  in order for it  to evolve  people  must come up with new ideas.. If  the east just copy everything the west does like they been for the last 100 years they will never be ahead of the game, it's monkey see monkey do. How they expect to become the leaders in tech when if the west didn't already make it they don't have it yet? The whole Chinese internet is just  copy of the  West's internet with Government censorship . The only thing the west  is adopting from the Chinese  is the bad part witch is the Government censorship we could live without that ,  witch was around 1000s  of years before the internet. The EU had  censorship before  they just going backward in time  before they was the EU  they will be lucky if there is a EU  much longer with the UK and others planing to pull out.

 

The Church and the Governments censored Europe and waged wars for over 2000 years    .... And  in countries  were they have more freedom  offline than online it will just turn the internet into a graveyard.  Right now the Governments are looking for ways to control technology witch will just hinder it even more,  stealing it just  gives Nation states a  excuse too clamp down on it and make more laws  and malware to control it . It just hurts us all. Before it's over with we will all be behind great firewalls and want even be able to talk to each other like it was before the internet.    Larry Page who use to run Google predicted this were the internet will split in half. It could be much worse  than half it could split way more than that .

 

Australia ban China startups just like the USA did so how is stealing helping anyone?  I'm sure the Australians would love  too have China's 5G internet but there Government ban it.  The www was weaved on  the fact people were free to do as they want and profit off it and  all Governments are trying to control it and mess it up and Big Tech  the ones who help weave it is helping the Governments  mess  it up, so they can still profit off it.  While it may be hard for them to control technology because of open source  .. It's not hard for the Government to control  Tech Firms  that profit from it the only thing that protected them so far is  the constitution,  but there talking about passing laws to put them in jail  if  they leak peoples data. And the constitution of the USA  don't protect  them from other World  Governments. So there banning people  left and right from there   platforms . Every action causes a reaction .

[nir]

1 hour ago, Sylence said:

doesn't matter who started them. technology is not something to belong to one specific person or nation.

Nothing lasts only for a few for long.  Both the so-called positives and the so-called negatives.

[knowledge-Spammer]

y is the usa make comments like it want to cyber attack russia and now china

i am sure my friend

ELLIOT will say its not good thing  to ddos orcyber attack or have news posts talk about it as maybe china or russia hit 1st

[steven36]

56 minutes ago, knowledge said:

y is the usa make comments like it want to

Because  we have freedom of the press  and freedom of specch,   Any country  that don't like it should join China's internet  or block all USA sites like China does, were not going to change  just because somewhere  else don't like it.. Russia and China says what they want about the USA in there media. but fact is the USA didn't write that the Australian free press did. Russia use to block all USA  news before . The people in China can't even read  it because they block any news site that  they don't agree with   .

 

56 minutes ago, knowledge said:

maybe china or russia hit 1st

 You must not understand what a retaliatory cyber attack is  it means some other country already has  striked . It's payback is what it means.

[knowledge-Spammer]

Just now, steven36 said:

Because  we have freedom of the press ,   Any country  that don't like it should join China's internet  or block all USA  like China does were not going to change  just because somewhere  else don't like Russia and China says what they want about the USA in there media.

 

 You must not understand what a retaliatory cyber attack is  it means some other country already has  striked .

 

i have see now 2 topics were usa or fbi or cia or someone with no head say i think we need to attack  russia or china

days apart  the people who make them comments is not smart and need to be kicked for bs talks  its to sell news

from my understand usa gov not like been hacked or attacked but post on line they want to attack country 

my friend u cant see it is going like u said with

Any country  that don't like it should join China's internet  or block all USA  like China does were not going to change  just because somewhere  else don't like Russia and China says what they want about the USA in there media

 

but u missed the part where utube or google put ads on utube channels  with  info about gov  but miss there on channles

usa gov google   do not like the news they see on things like rt so they put thing to try and make so less people trust or use

but i do not see russia or china do things like that with utube and things  they all think money is power  but its not

ask matt from this site he a admin  what he think about talks like ddos and cyber attack as  i am sure he have see ddos and things like   usa saying about  things like  its not smart  but they do for them self

 

 

[steven36]

34 minutes ago, knowledge said:

but u missed the part where utube or google put ads on utube channels  with  info about gov  but miss there on channles

usa gov google   do not like the news they see on things like rt so they put thing to try and make so less people trust or use

but i do not see russia or china do things like that with utube and things  they all think money is power  but its not

ask matt from this site he a admin  what he think about talks like ddos and cyber attack as  i am sure he have see ddos and things like   usa saying about  things like  its not smart 

 

Google are a private  owned company but they  are being investigated for being biased against the  Conservative News sites  in the USA ..  In order for them to change that  Russia would have  to take them to court, but good luck because so far even the US Government has not had any luck with changing them. Russia would have to threaten Google  with blocking are something  to get them to do anything.

 

I can go  to here https://www.rt.com/on-air/ and watch 4 different versions of RT . I watch the documentary sometimes.

 

We have 3.13 million  Russians living in the USA and 3.79 million Chinese that want to see whats happening  in there home lands many only speak English because they were born here  just there families  came over here to live.  Smartphones  have apps about any news app you would want  on Desktop Kodi has lots.

[Sylence]

On 11/21/2018 at 8:51 PM, nir said:

Nothing lasts only for a few for long.  Both the so-called positives and the so-called negatives.

 

idk how that's related to my comment 

On 11/21/2018 at 6:58 PM, steven36 said:

No it don't,  but  in order for it  to evolve  people  must come up with new ideas.. If  the east just copy everything the west does like they been for the last 100 years they will never be ahead of the game, it's monkey see monkey do. How they expect to become the leaders in tech when if the west didn't already make it they don't have it yet? The whole Chinese internet is just  copy of the  West's internet with Government censorship . The only thing the west  is adopting from the Chinese  is the bad part witch is the Government censorship we could live without that ,  witch was around 1000s  of years before the internet. The EU had  censorship before  they just going backward in time  before they was the EU  they will be lucky if there is a EU  much longer with the UK and others planing to pull out.

 

The Church and the Governments censored Europe and waged wars for over 2000 years    .... And  in countries  were they have more freedom  offline than online it will just turn the internet into a graveyard.  Right now the Governments are looking for ways to control technology witch will just hinder it even more,  stealing it just  gives Nation states a  excuse too clamp down on it and make more laws  and malware to control it . It just hurts us all. Before it's over with we will all be behind great firewalls and want even be able to talk to each other like it was before the internet.    Larry Page who use to run Google predicted this were the internet will split in half. It could be much worse  than half it could split way more than that .

 

Australia ban China startups just like the USA did so how is stealing helping anyone?  I'm sure the Australians would love  too have China's 5G internet but there Government ban it.  The www was weaved on  the fact people were free to do as they want and profit off it and  all Governments are trying to control it and mess it up and Big Tech  the ones who help weave it is helping the Governments  mess  it up, so they can still profit off it.  While it may be hard for them to control technology because of open source  .. It's not hard for the Government to control  Tech Firms  that profit from it the only thing that protected them so far is  the constitution,  but there talking about passing laws to put them in jail  if  they leak peoples data. And the constitution of the USA  don't protect  them from other World  Governments. So there banning people  left and right from there   platforms . Every action causes a reaction .

 

again doesn't matter who started them. technology is not something to belong to one specific person or nation. if other countries ban Chinese technologies it's their fault being under control of the west.

i think you're too old to realize that, beyond saving.

[nir]

3 hours ago, Sylence said:

idk how that's related to my comment 

Both are comments by members.