Obama Admits Government Will Take Over Health Care

[Ambrocious]

See the YouTube video:

Obama Admits Government Will Take Over Health Care

[LeetPirate]

See the YouTube video:

Obama Admits Government Will Take Over Health Care

I for one will have to disagree that this is the best option for America. There is no such thing as cheap or free health care, the money will have to come from somewhere and in most cases that source of money is increased taxes. Just look at Canada and their epic failure of a health care system; everyone will jump up and boast that Canada has free health care but what about the extremely long wait periods for treatment because it's free, what about the high taxes Canadians have to pay for everything? If USA plans to increase taxes on things like electronics etc. it will cause a slowdown in general spending both inside the country and for export.

[Ambrocious]

See the YouTube video:

Obama Admits Government Will Take Over Health Care

I for one will have to disagree that this is the best option for America. There is no such thing as cheap or free health care, the money will have to come from somewhere and in most cases that source of money is increased taxes. Just look at Canada and their epic failure of a health care system; everyone will jump up and boast that Canada has free health care but what about the extremely long wait periods for treatment because it's free, what about the high taxes Canadians have to pay for everything? If USA plans to increase taxes on things like electronics etc. it will cause a slowdown in general spending both inside the country and for export.

Not only that but in this new health bill, it says that the government has the right to deny you treatment if you are too old, mentally handicapped, too sick to treat or just in any case that they decided. They will have the right to give you whatever kind of treatment that THEY want and you get NO say so in it at all. It's all power and control.

[Rock Lee]

I'm not even gonna reply to this. They took all of the videos out of context from years ago. Amrbo you've completely lost my respect now. You send me a PM acting as if you're all curious about my positions and what not but when I replied you put your tail between your legs & couldn't say anything.

I'm done wasting my time on you. You say that I'm the stubborn one who thinks I have "god like" intelligence. No, the stubborn one is you. You won't listen to anyone unless its one of those infowars idiots.

Keep on posting whatever you want. From now on I'll just laugh at you...

[Ambrocious]

Because you would rather slander me Rock Lee, here is some information to look into:

Obama Health Care Plan Details

HR 3200 currently under consideration in the House of

Representatives

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit the books

of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE

that decides what treatments/benefits you get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS

RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will

choose your benefits for you. You have no choice!

Pg 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL

non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Gov't will have real-time access to

individual's finances & a National ID Health care card

will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to

your banks accts for electronic funds transfer.

Pg 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and

their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring

priv HC plans under Govt control.

Pg 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages

for private Health Care plans in the Exchange

Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for

Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

Pg 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic

appropriate services.

Example - Translation for illegal aliens.

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e.,

ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC

plan

Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP

members - Your Health Care WILL be rationed

Pg 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Individual

will be automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Govt on price

fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will

tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees

into public opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time

employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer w/ payroll 400k & above

who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payr oll

Pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll btw 251k & 400k who

doesnt provide public opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesnt have acceptable HC

according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income..

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from

individual taxes. (Americans will pay).

Pg 195 Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will

have access to ALL Americans financial and personal records.

Pg 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section

shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for

Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, it does not matter what

specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same.

Pg 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, prof judg,

etc. Literally value of humans.

Pg 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity

for private HC industries.

Pg 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of

power driven wheelchairs..

Pg 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals -

Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what

Govt deems preventable readmissions. (Incentives for

hospital to not treat and release.)

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial

admission that results in a readmission-Govt will penalize

you.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt

tells Drs. what/how much they can own..

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt

is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for

exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates established of

outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare

Advantage Plans (Part B), HMOs, etc. Forcing people into

Govt plan.

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special

needs people!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth

Advisory Committee. HC by phone/Internet?

Pg 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance [Death] Care

Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life.

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult

regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

Pg 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Gov't provides approved

list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

Pg 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end

of life. The Gov't has a say in how your life ends.

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be

used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

Pg 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may incl an

ORDER for end of life plan s. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors

can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of

treatment you will have at end of life

(NOTE FROM Rick Joyner: The above really does give the

government the authority to determine who lives and dies,

and when. A government bureaucrat really will be making this

decision for you and your loved ones.)

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit

orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Pg 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1

monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

Pg 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family

therapy. They will insert Government into your marriage.

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including

defining, creating, rationing those svcs

PG 502 Sec 1181 Center for Comparative Effectiveness

Research Established. - Hello Big Brother - Literally.

Pg 503 Lines 13-19 Gov't will build registries and data

networks from YOUR electronic med records.

Pg 503 lines 21-25 Gov't may secure data directly from any

depart or agency of the US including your data.

Pg 504 Lines 6-10 The "Center" will collect data both

published & unpublished (that means public & your

private info)

PG 50620Lines 19-21 The Center will recommend policies that

would allow for public access of data.

PG 518 Lines 21-25 The Commission will have input from HC

consumer reps - Can you say unions & ACORN?

PG 524 18-22 Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund

set up. More taxes for ALL.

PG 621 Lines 20-25 Gov't will define what Quality means in

HC. Since when does Gov't know about quality?

Pg 622 Lines 2-9 To pay for the Quality Standards, Govt

will transfer $$ from to other Govt Trust Funds. More Taxes.

PG 624 "Quality" measures shall be designed to assess

outcomes & functional status of patients.

PG 624 "Quality" measures shall be designed to profile you

including race, age, gender, place of residence, etc

Pg 628 Sec 1443 Gov't will give "Multi-Stake Holders"

Pre-Rule Making input into Selection of "Quality" Measures.

Pg 630 9-24/631 1-9 Those Multi-stake holder groups incl.

Unions & groups like ACORN deciding HC quality.

Pg 632 Lines 14-25 The Gov't may implement any "Quality

measure" of HC Services as they see fit.

PG 633 14-25/ 634 1-9 The Secretary may issue non-endorsed

"Quality Measures" for Physician Services & Dialysis

Services.

Pg 635 to 653 Physicians Payments Sunshine Provision -

Gov't wants to shine sunlight on Docs but not Govt.

Pg 654-659 Public Reporting on Health Care-Associated

Infections - Looks okay.

PG 660-671 Doctors in Residency - Gov't will tell you where

your residency will be, thus where you'll live.

Pg 676-686 Gov't will regulate hospitals in EVERY aspect of

residency programs, incl. teaching hospitals.

Pg 686-700 Increased Funding to Fight Waste, Fraud, and

Abuse. You mean like the Gov't with an $18 million website?

PGs 701-704 Sec 1619 If your part of HC plan isn't in Gov't

HC Exchange but you qualify for Fed aid, no payment.

PG 705-709 SEC. 1128 If Secr gets complaints (ACORN) on HC

provider or supplier, Gov't can do background check.

PG 711 Lines 8-14 The Secretary has broad powers to deny HC

providers/ suppliers admittance into HC Exchange. Your

doctor could be thrown out of business.

Pg 719-720 Sec 1637 ANY Doctor who orders durable med equip

or home med services MUST be enrolled in Medicare.

PG 722 Sec 1639 Gov't MANDATES Doctors must have face to

face with patient to certify patient for Home Health Svcs.

PG 724 23-25 PG 725 1-5 The same Gov't certifications will

apply to Medicaid & CHIP (your kids)

PG 724 Lines 16-22 Gov't reserves rt to apply face to face

certification for patient to ANY other HC service.

Pg 735 lines 16-25 For law enforce. proposes the

Secretary-HHS will give Atty General access to ALL data.

PG 740-757 Gov't sets guidelines for subsidizing the

uninsured (Thats your tax dollars people)

Pg 757-762 Fed gov't will shift burden of payments to

Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) to States. (Taxes)

Pg 763 1-8 No DS/EA hospitals will be paid unless they

provide services without regard to national origin

Pg 765 Sec 1711 Gov't will require Preventative Services

including vaccines. (Choice?)

Pg 768 Sec 1713 Gov't - Nurse Home Visitation Svcs (Hello

union paybacks)

Pg 769 11-14 Nurse Home Visit Svcs include-economic

self-sufficiency, employ adv, school-readiness.

Pg 769 3-5 Nurse Home Visit Services - "increasing birth

intervals between pregnancies." Govt ABORTIONS anyone

Pg 770 SEC 1714 Fed Gov't mandates eligibility for State

Family Planning Services. Abortion & State Sovereign.

Pg 789-797 Gov't will set, mandate drug prices, controlling

which drugs brought to market. Bye innovation.

Pgs 797-800 SEC. 1744 PAYMENTS for graduate medical

education. The government will now control Drs' education.

PG 801 Sec 1751 The Govt will decide which Health care

conditions will be paid.. Say RATION!

Pg 810 SEC. 1759. Billing Agents, clearinghouses, etc req.

to register. Gov't takes over private payment sys.

Pg 820-824 Sec 1801 Govt will identify individ. ineligible

for subsidies. Will access all personal financial

information.

Pg 824-829 SEC. 1802. Govt Sets up Comparative

Effectiveness Research Trust Fund. Another tax black hole.

PG 829-833 Gov't will impose a fee on ALL private health

ins. plans incl. self insured to pay for Trust Fund!

PG 835 11-13 fees imposed by Gov't for Trust Fund shall be

treated as if they were taxes.

Pg 838-840 Gov't will design & implement Home

Visitation Program for families with young kids &

families expect kids.

PG 844-845 This Home Visitation Prog. includes Gov't coming

into your house & telling you how to parent!!!

Pg 859 Gov't will establish a Public Health Fund at a cost

of $88,800,000,000. Yes that's Billion.

Pg 865 The Gov't will MANDATE the establishment of a

National Health Service Corps.

PG 865 to 876 The NHS Corps is a program where Drs. perform

mandatory HC for 2yrs for part loan repayment.

PG 876-892 The govt takes over the education of our Med

students and Drs.

PG 898 The Govt will establish a Public Health Workforce

Corps to ensure supply of public health prof.

PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of

civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.

PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of

officers of Regular & Reserve Corps of Service.

PG 900 The Public Health Workforce Corps includes

veterinarians.

PG 901 The Public Health Workforce Corps WILL include

commissioned Regular & Reserve Officers. HC Draft?

PG 910 The Govt will develop, build & run Public

Health Training Centers.

PG 913-914 Govt starts a HC affirmative action program thru

guise of diversity scholarships.

PG 915 SEC. 2251. Govt MANDDATES Cultural & linguistic

competency training for HC professionals.

Pg 932 The Govt will estab Preventative & Wellness

Trust fund- initial cost of $30,800,000,000-Billion.

PG 935 21-22 Govt will identify specific goals &

objectives for prevention & wellness activities. Control

YOU!!

PG 936 Govt will develop "Healthy People & National

Public Health Perform. Standards" Tell me what to eat?

PG 942 Lines 22-25 More Gov't? Offices of Surgeon General

-Public Health Svc, Minority Health, Women's Health

PG 950- 980 BIG GOV'T core pub health infrastructure

including workforce capacity, lab systems; health info sys,

etc

PG 993 Gov't will establish school based health clinics.

Your kids won't have a chance.

PG 994 School Based Health Clinic will be integrated into

the school environment. Say GOVT Brainwash!

PG 1001 The Govt will establish a National Medical Device

Registry. Will you be tracked?

This is not even a battle between you and I but for some reason you have made it personal. I just want to save a few lives. Wake up please.

[Rock Lee]

Because you would rather slander me Rock Lee, here is some information to look into:

This is not even a battle between you and I but for some reason you have made it personal. I just want to save a few lives. Wake up please.

Slander lol nice choice of words there buddy. I guess you found the middle that I cut out of the quote at infowars. I say that by the little remarks under the page details. It's a shame really. You call Obama the puppet when the one with the strings is you. You're doing exactly what the leader(s) of that bullshit site want you to do & that's act as if you're all righteous & doing this to "save lives".

Don't tell me to wake up, the one in the coma is not I. Who's lives are you intending to save and how? I'm sick of you saying that too, outline that for me detail by detail. I don't want a simple answer either.

And for anyone who really is interested in the Obama heathcare plan, read these two articles. They should open your eyes rather than close them to reality like this crap does:

Fact Check: The Truth Behind Obama's Health Care Plan

Healthcare under Obama: Dispelling myths and setting precedents

A joke is only funny for so long. After a while it gets annoying...

[Ambrocious]

Before this gets too heated up, I'd like to offer anyone out there who can see whats plainly happening to the United States the link to the Alex Jones YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel

Our differences may be strong and fierce but in the end what matters most is your freedoms and mine Rock Lee. By what ever means possible, please open your eyes and take the steps into keeping your loved ones safe. I hope that you will realize that this is true before it's too late.

Admin's, feel free to close this one here if it gets too bad.

[Rock Lee]

Before this gets too heated up, I'd like to offer anyone out there who can see whats plainly happening to the United States the link to the Alex Jones YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel

Our differences may be strong and fierce but in the end what matters most is your freedoms and mine Rock Lee. By what ever means possible, please open your eyes and take the steps into keeping your loved ones safe. I hope that you will realize that this is true before it's too late.

Admin's, feel free to close this one here if it gets too bad.

No, what matters is you waking up. There are no freedoms that will be taken away, there is no new world order, there is nothing I should fear. There isn't anyone on this earth that will convince me otherwise. If things like this don't make sense there's no reason to believe them, that is unless you want to. Which is the case with you.

That's right, run to the mods to close the thread because I asked you some hard questions. You still haven't answered my questions, you never have & you never will. You always change the subject & now that I've got you in a position to where you can't you need someone else to intervene.

Let me remind you that you're the only one who is keeping this going. I don't talk about it unless need be, this is the only thing you talk about. In fact, the only other time I've seen you post is the 'thank you' thread you did when I first got here.

I don't care if they close this thread, warn me, hell even ban me. As long as there is truths to be told I'll tell them. If that means Rock Lee & nsane forums have to split ways then so be it...

[LeetPirate]

The Current Situation

Making sure every American has access to high quality health care is one of the most important challenges of our time. The number of uninsured Americans is growing, premiums are skyrocketing, and more people are being denied coverage every day. A moral imperative by any measure, a better system is also essential to rebuilding our economy -- we want to make health insurance work for people and businesses, not just insurance and drug companies.

The Solution

• Reform the health care system:
  We will take steps to reform our system by expanding coverage, improving quality, lowering costs, honoring patient choice and holding insurance companies accountable.
  
• Promote scientific and technological advancements:
  We are committed to putting responsible science and technological innovation ahead of ideology when it comes to medical research. We believe in the enormous capacity of American ingenuity to find cures for diseases that continue to extinguish too many lives and cause too much suffering every year.
  
• Improve preventative care:
  In order to keep our people healthy and provide more efficient treatment we need to promote smart preventative care, like cancer screenings and better nutrition, and make critical investments in electronic health records, technology that can reduce errors while ensuring privacy and saving lives.
  

Taken from here.

Full PDF of health care plan here.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I firmly believe they could achieve this health care reformation without introducing a whole new insurance plan. Why can't they simply fix the laws and hold insurance companies accountable and all the rest of things to make the present system work better instead of introducing a whole new plan? I just don't want to see USA end up like Canada with taxes so high on everything. No matter what Obama or anyone says about reducing the cost of health care the money has to come from somewhere. What is true is that the high ranking employees of the private insurance companies are overpaying themselves, an act of greed which should be regulated, these are the things that cause insurance costs to sky-rocket, not the actual cost of medicine. Of course they could always save money too by hiring Cuban and Indian doctors :D but not everyone would welcome foreigners "stealing" their jobs. The gov't should also move to hold hospitals accountable for the fees they charge because some of their prices are outrageous. These are some of the things I believe should really be done because why should the public believe that a new health plan is the solution when there is present proof that the gov't refuses to "fix" the current ones.

Just something to think about.

[Ambrocious]

Before this gets too heated up, I'd like to offer anyone out there who can see whats plainly happening to the United States the link to the Alex Jones YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel

Our differences may be strong and fierce but in the end what matters most is your freedoms and mine Rock Lee. By what ever means possible, please open your eyes and take the steps into keeping your loved ones safe. I hope that you will realize that this is true before it's too late.

Admin's, feel free to close this one here if it gets too bad.

No, what matters is you waking up. There are no freedoms that will be taken away, there is no new world order, there is nothing I should fear. There isn't anyone on this earth that will convince me otherwise. If things like this don't make sense there's no reason to believe them, that is unless you want to. Which is the case with you.

That's right, run to the mods to close the thread because I asked you some hard questions. You still haven't answered my questions, you never have & you never will. You always change the subject & now that I've got you in a position to where you can't you need someone else to intervene.

Let me remind you that you're the only one who is keeping this going. I don't talk about it unless need be, this is the only thing you talk about. In fact, the only other time I've seen you post is the 'thank you' thread you did when I first got here.

I don't care if they close this thread, warn me, hell even ban me. As long as there is truths to be told I'll tell them. If that means Rock Lee & nsane forums have to split ways then so be it...

Nah, your a great guy Rock Lee and do not let me force you into leaving either; this website is a rare and resourceful gem in my eyes (NsaneDown) and I wouldn't want to be the one to cause you to leave. I think in the future is what we could do is hold debates about such subjects so this way people know that it might get a little heated from time to time. Everyone has their right to speak and your doing it very well I see and I am still holding to what I post. Don't worry about being banned either, there NEEDS to be two sides to a coin otherwise chaos will per sue and so you have a part in all this as well. If you feel like saying what you say to me and further making me sound like a fool (please picture a bully in a school playground while others surround and chant the bully into kicking a kids butt) then by all means, say it, it doesn't hurt me.

If it's not a problem with you that you constantly counter all that I say then I don't mind turning this into a beautiful debate.

And as for your questions...I give you the info, you have to go and look for yourself if it's true or not. I know it's true but obviously you do not know this. Every time I post from InfoWars.com I post the truth that SEEMS as if it is a lie to the people under the psyop but if you go and look for yourself and dig into it, you WILL find that it is true. Those in denial are choosing to be blind.

Already (and it HAS been like this for a long time) they are admitting to a New World Order in financial terms. Once everything is set in place with a global currency, next comes global laws. Once global laws pass, we will be led into rules and regulations that are separate from that of ours now. This is just the beginning what your seeing happen now. Once the swine flu is "purposely" used to control the people and get them into FEMA camps, then comes the domestication; as if we were animals we will be trained to love our conditions even in deplorable environments. Some of the things up the tube that we can expect is Martial Law. Any of you in your home town been seeing an increase in the transportation of Military vehicles? I know that I have.

Get the truth, even when people call you crazy for it. I don't care what I'm deemed just as long as some people could prepare for the coming storm.

DEBUNK ME. I'M BEGGING YOU.

[Bizarre™]

Let me just remind everyone: chill out :bag:

[shought]

It's fine Bizarre, they've been in discussions like this before and probably won't overdo it, but it's still best to watch them :sneaky: :P

Anyhow:

@Ambrocious

You're obviously a pretty smart guy and you choose to believe something else than the majority does which doesn't mean your wrong.

@Rock Lee

You're obviously a pretty smart guy and you choose to believe the confirmed facts and apply rationality to them.

Neither is better, if you ask me.

You know, I've got a nice comparison over here:

My philosophy teacher is a firm believer even though he's (one of) the most reasonable and rational persons I know. The only way I could ever explain this was that he knew or experienced something that we don't/haven't all know/experienced. I've had numerous discussions with him and they never got me any further because he basically just kept on believing. Turns out that I was right, he did have some kind of revelation and that was the sole reason he believed.

In this comparison I would be Rock Lee and my teacher would be Ambrocious. I'm not suggesting that Ambrocious had some kind of revelation, but he might know something or believe in something which makes it totally rational for him to believe everything about this.

The point of my nice story: drop it guys, you'll never reach an understanding with each other ;)

[Bizarre™]

:lmao: to make a long story short: chill out :bag:

[manpe]

I hope you both keep an open mind to the possibility of opposite things being the truth than what you believe. What I meant by that is respect your opponent in a discussion and don't start pressing on your convictions... because, I personally believe, we can't be fully convinced of anything.

So keeping an open mind in such matters is one of the best things you can do. ;)

As for the topic itself... I understand Ambro's concerns, I share some of those concerns myself too. Looking at the world today, who wouldn't be concerned?

[Ambrocious]

And amongst all things, people should NOT just believe whatever they hear and read, that's why I'm encouraging everyone to do the research themselves. We all need to realize the REAL world we live in before we no longer CAN realize it. A person can be wrong sometimes and so I ask anyone wanting to know to go and look for yourself. Dig in deep and find out. You will find out soon enough and trust me...it's not going to be pretty.

[Rock Lee]

Nah, your a great guy Rock Lee and do not let me force you into leaving either; this website is a rare and resourceful gem in my eyes (NsaneDown) and I wouldn't want to be the one to cause you to leave. I think in the future is what we could do is hold debates about such subjects so this way people know that it might get a little heated from time to time. Everyone has their right to speak and your doing it very well I see and I am still holding to what I post. Don't worry about being banned either, there NEEDS to be two sides to a coin otherwise chaos will per sue and so you have a part in all this as well. If you feel like saying what you say to me and further making me sound like a fool (please picture a bully in a school playground while others surround and chant the bully into kicking a kids butt) then by all means, say it, it doesn't hurt me.

I'm not leaving. I said that to show you that I have no fear of consequence. I'll die saying what I feel that live not saying a word. How saying what you said would make you look like a fool is beyond me. & By the illusion you're calling me the bully right? :hehe: My words are strong aren't they? But I don't physically hurt you. I don't call you names. Hell the only thing I did say is that you lost my respect, which you did I wasn't lying. Just because I don't respect you doesn't mean I'll disrespect you. Remember that.

If it's not a problem with you that you constantly counter all that I say then I don't mind turning this into a beautiful debate.

And as for your questions...I give you the info, you have to go and look for yourself if it's true or not. I know it's true but obviously you do not know this. Every time I post from InfoWars.com I post the truth that SEEMS as if it is a lie to the people under the psyop but if you go and look for yourself and dig into it, you WILL find that it is true. Those in denial are choosing to be blind.

"SEEMS as if it is a lie" - Yeah go look at the combat cars in Springfield thread again. Does that look like it's true to you? Because it certainly doesn't look like that to me. These articles are nothing but a ploy to both bring new people in (with people like you being the recruiter) and to keep those believing to believe stronger. They've done a good job, with you at least. You won't listen to anyone unless it comes from their mouth and mind.

Already (and it HAS been like this for a long time) they are admitting to a New World Order in financial terms. Once everything is set in place with a global currency, next comes global laws. Once global laws pass, we will be led into rules and regulations that are separate from that of ours now. This is just the beginning what your seeing happen now. Once the swine flu is "purposely" used to control the people and get them into FEMA camps, then comes the domestication

Let me stop you right there. Do you have any clue what domestication is? I don't think so, go read up on that more before you try to use that term. Then comes yet again the concentration camps. I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend what I've said or remember it. Like I've said before, I won't repeat myself because you won't learn anything (but with the way this is going you won't either way). You were also really smart (sarcasm) to leave the term you searched in the screenshot. Am I supposed to believe that shot just because you provided some pictures of videos? Ones that don't even include us, it's in the UK. They must've started the "new world order" already. Quickly, anyone living in the UK stock up on food and water. Head to the bunker. Nuclear fallout is upon you! :rolleyes:

; as if we were animals we will be trained to love our conditions even in deplorable environments. Some of the things up the tube that we can expect is Martial Law. Any of you in your home town been seeing an increase in the transportation of Military vehicles? I know that I have.

When is this supposed to be happening sir? Since you know so much info on it you should know the exact date & time that I should be snatched from my house & driven to a camp in a military car in Springfield.

Get the truth, even when people call you crazy for it. I don't care what I'm deemed just as long as some people could prepare for the coming storm.

DEBUNK ME. I'M BEGGING YOU.

Truth is a word you should stop using. Opinion should replace that. And since you've so kindly begged for it, you got it.

These quotes are taken completely out of context along with each of them being incredibly dated. George Washington was quoted. This was almost 250 years ago! Maybe it all started then, but if that happened I'd be dead right now wouldn't I? The newest one is from 2002, which is...let me count, 1,2,3,4,5,6 years before Obama was even sworn in as president. These all come from another nut job site that'll do anything to prove themselves right. Bringing up the Illuminati was a nice touch though lol

In this comparison I would be Rock Lee and my teacher would be Ambrocious. I'm not suggesting that Ambrocious had some kind of revelation, but he might know something or believe in something which makes it totally rational for him to believe everything about this.

That's what I'm trying to pull out of this guy. What happened to him to where he has to think all of this bs is true? He won't budge, that's not my fault. He's the one keeping this going. I've never started a debate like this, I always finish em.

The point of my nice story: drop it guys, you'll never reach an understanding with each other ;)

I learned that a while back. It's only a matter of time before he gives up. If that time doesn't happen then as long as I'm here I'll be here to defend what I know to be true...

And amongst all things, people should NOT just believe whatever they hear and read, that's why I'm encouraging everyone to do the research themselves. We all need to realize the REAL world we live in before we no longer CAN realize it. A person can be wrong sometimes and so I ask anyone wanting to know to go and look for yourself. Dig in deep and find out. You will find out soon enough and trust me...it's not going to be pretty.

No, what's not going to be pretty is you guys a few years down the road scurrying to find anything to validate your points. You'll continue to make up stories, exaggerate old ones & new ones. Preach about an order that will never come. Your grandkids will hopefully be the more reasonable generation...

[Ambrocious]

Just because I don't respect you doesn't mean I'll disrespect you. Remember that.

[Rock Lee]

Just because I don't respect you doesn't mean I'll disrespect you. Remember that.

Glad to see your going to remain neutral then because that's what neither respect NOR disrespect means. The fact is that we both have the rights to have a jolly old heated debate but one thing I know, without any personal feelings towards you, is that we will all see wha the truth is BEFORE or after the aftermath of the storm coming. Those who knew that there were clouds out would have gotten inside and prepared accordingly. Those who didn't know or didn't care or shouted at the people or the sky it's self, "Hey you, you are not dangerous, you are a simple cloud that is harmless and in fact good. I can't wait till you pass by so I can show those people that it was good," will be caught outside as the storm drowns them [metaphorically].

There's a difference between a torrential downpoor (your theories) and threatening storm cloud (my theories). We'll see...

So far Rock Lee, all you have managed to do is say how wrong I am, announce that it is NONE of it is real, and that you will announce it until the bitter end. The ones who marched into the gas chambers in WWII didn't know exactly what was going to happen, few knew and most died because they did not retain the knowledge, but of course by then, it was already too late.

You're right I will. There isn't anything for me to prove. I'm not here to show that the government is perfect in any way. I'm here to show you & anyone else who believes this that you believe it for basically no reason. When I'm taken to a concentration camp then I'll believe you. Until then I never will.

I'm begging yo Rock Lee, placing all this aside, watch "ENDGAME: Blueprint For Global Enslavement" and "The Obama Deception". Refusal to find the truth even when it is submitted to you MANY times over again is to admit that you know it all. This act will destroy MANY. Thinking that you are right based on your own views, independent of facts or reliable sources, causes a person to march into anything unprepared and unprotected. Watch those films to completion and debunk it if you can. Unless your afraid that your wrong, watch it. You have nothing to lose nor gain from watching if you still have the same attitude afterwords. My hope for you is honestly that you will realize that it is really happening because I know that you can and will become a powerful tool used for freedom and liberty. The world needs people who are well versed in speech to be for the side of good and freedom because the evil of this planet already have their offices bursting open with those sly speakers. Find out Rock Lee, I’m begging you. This is not a hostile request, I am genuinely wanting you to see and act accordingly.

Afraid? You shouldn't have said that. I've told you once I have no fear of consequence or of anything else for that matter. You should stop begging me, the only way the light will be shown to me is through physical evidence. Since you're so positive that it's going to happen there's really no need for me to watch those right? I mean I'll find out for myself won't I?

[Ambrocious]

When I'm taken to a concentration camp then I'll believe you. Until then I never will.

If someone you didn't know came to you frantically and said "Your house is on fire!" would you just shrug it off because you don't know the fool or will you wonder if it's true? You have in fact chosen to deny ALL things outside of what you believe and know or care. Break that cycle if you ever care to survive. That’s not an order, it’s a request.

Since you're so positive that it's going to happen there's really no need for me to watch those right? I mean I'll find out for myself won't I?

Yes. But by all means don't find out. Don't look and see. Don't care.

Do you have any family or friends? Do you have any loved ones? If you don't care about your own self (either it's you don't care or you have over time learned to distrust so called conspiracies) then at least find out for their sake. Yes, I am a person who does care about complete strangers. Is this shocking to you? Most people now days could care less if their neighbor died in THEIR OWN lawn while talking to them, that's the spirit of apathy. I see where you stand Rock Lee. You would cut your nose off to spite your face. I will never understand people like you however because I have never been the type to defend something or go against something until I knew it was wrong or right because I looked into the situations. I find the proof and act accordingly. Where is your appropriate counter ASIDE from snide remarks of selfishness and pride?

Be comfortable as you always have been and always stand in the center of a picket fence and it will collapse suddenly, without warning from its wooden structure even though the farmer told you it was weak. Closing your eyes and mind is a great way to live in delusions. I thank God in Heaven I no longer do and more and more people are waking up to the facts of all that I re-post. This is not attack on you even though it seems like it. This is an attack on the psyop that has been installed upon your very essence of life, alongside with millions of other people to propagate the poor and to ultimately have their way with the society once it falls by THEIR design.

My last question to you here is this: Do you currently work for any government facility or police or law enforcement company or organization? If you do then this would explain the level of apathy and nihilistic views you have. If you don't then are you currently employed in the Hidden Leaf Village? Either way, we can and have set our self's to become misled from very young ages. The real challenge is not to trust the government but rather to realize that we should see to it that we make sure that it up holds to the constitution in which it was founded and if not, make sure that liberty is protected and restored. When we fear the government, there is tyranny [9/11 placed the fear deep into our lives] but when we do not fear it, it brings about freedom and liberty. You say you don’t fear it but that is from not knowing the whole agenda.

The only reason that I hope it doesn't happen soon is because I know that people can still wake up BEFORE it happens so they can prepare. Failing to prepare BEFORE it happens results in chaos. I fear that when it does happen, you will shrink in absolute despair and probably seek a quick exit strategy from life. Don't believe me, but I DO care for you.

Nuff said.

[shought]

My last question to you here is this: Do you currently work for any government facility or police or law enforcement company or organization? If you do then this would explain the level of apathy and nihilistic views you have. If you don't then are you currently employed in the Hidden Leaf Village?

Ah, cmon, that's low...

[Ambrocious]

Yeah that was a bit low...sorry bout that.

[Rock Lee]

If someone you didn't know came to you frantically and said "Your house is on fire!" would you just shrug it off because you don't know the fool or will you wonder if it's true? You have in fact chosen to deny ALL things outside of what you believe and know or care. Break that cycle if you ever care to survive. That’s not an order, it’s a request.

That would be true...if my house was actually on fire! You live on the principle if there's smoke there's fire. I don't agree. I'm sick of you saying I'll die if I don't believe you. When I'm dead I want you to come to my funeral & tell everyone why I died. Tell them that the bs you spread is the reason I was "gassed at a concentration camp".

Yes. But by all means don't find out. Don't look and see. Don't care.

Do you have any family or friends? Do you have any loved ones? If you don't care about your own self (either it's you don't care or you have over time learned to distrust so called conspiracies) then at least find out for their sake. Yes, I am a person who does care about complete strangers. Is this shocking to you? Most people now days could care less if their neighbor died in THEIR OWN lawn while talking to them, that's the spirit of apathy. I see where you stand Rock Lee. You would cut your nose off to spite your face. I will never understand people like you however because I have never been the type to defend something or go against something until I knew it was wrong or right because I looked into the situations. I find the proof and act accordingly. Where is your appropriate counter ASIDE from snide remarks of selfishness and pride?

Conspiracies are only proven true when the come true. Why you would "never understand people like me" is stupid because you said yourself that you used to be like me! How the hell did you change stories so quickly? If you lie like you have I'll find out. That's exactly what you're doing now, lying. You just don't get it do you? What is the difference between you telling me the goddamn facts & me watching the video? There is none! If you'd come off of your incredibly lazy ways & tell me you wouldn't be able to say anything. Instead, you want me to "see for myself". Once again, the survival guide thread comes up. I already told you that I'm not watching a video that's nothing but bullshit. If that's not good enough for you then too damn bad.

Be comfortable as you always have been and always stand in the center of a picket fence and it will collapse suddenly, without warning from its wooden structure even though the farmer told you it was weak. Closing your eyes and mind is a great way to live in delusions. I thank God in Heaven I no longer do and more and more people are waking up to the facts of all that I re-post. This is not attack on you even though it seems like it. This is an attack on the psyop that has been installed upon your very essence of life, alongside with millions of other people to propagate the poor and to ultimately have their way with the society once it falls by THEIR design.

You know what's funny about this entire thing? You keep bringing up "God" like he has something to do with it. Don't make this into a religious thing. Stop telling people to "pray" and "read the bible because it has begun". Didn't you read what I said in that thread? Oh right you won't believe a word unless it comes from your father Alex Jones.

My last question to you here is this: Do you currently work for any government facility or police or law enforcement company or organization? If you do then this would explain the level of apathy and nihilistic views you have. If you don't then are you currently employed in the Hidden Leaf Village?

And the personal shots begin. I suggest you calm down. Now.

Either way, we can and have set our self's to become misled from very young ages. The real challenge is not to trust the government but rather to realize that we should see to it that we make sure that it up holds to the constitution in which it was founded and if not, make sure that liberty is protected and restored. When we fear the government, there is tyranny [9/11 placed the fear deep into our lives] but when we do not fear it, it brings about freedom and liberty. You say you don’t fear it but that is from not knowing the whole agenda.

Fearing inevitability is ludicrous! Why fear something that you know is going to happen? That's like being afraid to die. Every living thing dies. Even though this isn't anywhere close to inevitability, if you know it's going to happen why even warn people? People in Germany knew of the Holocaust & they still died. The only way some of them escaped is by running. Where the hell are we supposed to "run" to save ourselves? If it's a new world order there is no escape. You need to think about that for a minute because it's slipped your mind. Even if this is true what the hell can we do? Huh? You still haven't answered that question.

The only reason that I hope it doesn't happen soon is because I know that people can still wake up BEFORE it happens so they can prepare. Failing to prepare BEFORE it happens results in chaos. I fear that when it does happen, you will shrink in absolute despair and probably seek a quick exit strategy from life. Don't believe me, but I DO care for you.

Nuff said.

Again, how do we "prepare"? You still haven't said that. The only thing you have said is that we should, not how. You don't know do you? Alex hasn't told you guys how you should "hide" to protect your "loved ones" has he? I don't believe you & quite frankly I don't want someone like you to "care" for me.

Not even close to "nuff said". You keep contradicting yourself and every single time you do you take a large step backwards. It's only a matter of time before you can't step back & you have to face the truth, either that or jump off of the cliff you've made for yourself.

[Ambrocious]

If someone you didn't know came to you frantically and said "Your house is on fire!" would you just shrug it off because you don't know the fool or will you wonder if it's true? You have in fact chosen to deny ALL things outside of what you believe and know or care. Break that cycle if you ever care to survive. That’s not an order, it’s a request.

That would be true...if my house was actually on fire! You live on the principle if there's smoke there's fire. I don't agree. I'm sick of you saying I'll die if I don't believe you. When I'm dead I want you to come to my funeral & tell everyone why I died. Tell them that the bs you spread is the reason I was "gassed at a concentration camp".

Yes. But by all means don't find out. Don't look and see. Don't care.

Do you have any family or friends? Do you have any loved ones? If you don't care about your own self (either it's you don't care or you have over time learned to distrust so called conspiracies) then at least find out for their sake. Yes, I am a person who does care about complete strangers. Is this shocking to you? Most people now days could care less if their neighbor died in THEIR OWN lawn while talking to them, that's the spirit of apathy. I see where you stand Rock Lee. You would cut your nose off to spite your face. I will never understand people like you however because I have never been the type to defend something or go against something until I knew it was wrong or right because I looked into the situations. I find the proof and act accordingly. Where is your appropriate counter ASIDE from snide remarks of selfishness and pride?

Conspiracies are only proven true when the come true. Why you would "never understand people like me" is stupid because you said yourself that you used to be like me! How the hell did you change stories so quickly? If you lie like you have I'll find out. That's exactly what you're doing now, lying. You just don't get it do you? What is the difference between you telling me the goddamn facts & me watching the video? There is none! If you'd come off of your incredibly lazy ways & tell me you wouldn't be able to say anything. Instead, you want me to "see for myself". Once again, the survival guide thread comes up. I already told you that I'm not watching a video that's nothing but bullshit. If that's not good enough for you then too damn bad.

Be comfortable as you always have been and always stand in the center of a picket fence and it will collapse suddenly, without warning from its wooden structure even though the farmer told you it was weak. Closing your eyes and mind is a great way to live in delusions. I thank God in Heaven I no longer do and more and more people are waking up to the facts of all that I re-post. This is not attack on you even though it seems like it. This is an attack on the psyop that has been installed upon your very essence of life, alongside with millions of other people to propagate the poor and to ultimately have their way with the society once it falls by THEIR design.

You know what's funny about this entire thing? You keep bringing up "God" like he has something to do with it. Don't make this into a religious thing. Stop telling people to "pray" and "read the bible because it has begun". Didn't you read what I said in that thread? Oh right you won't believe a word unless it comes from your father Alex Jones.

My last question to you here is this: Do you currently work for any government facility or police or law enforcement company or organization? If you do then this would explain the level of apathy and nihilistic views you have. If you don't then are you currently employed in the Hidden Leaf Village?

And the personal shots begin. I suggest you calm down. Now.

Either way, we can and have set our self's to become misled from very young ages. The real challenge is not to trust the government but rather to realize that we should see to it that we make sure that it up holds to the constitution in which it was founded and if not, make sure that liberty is protected and restored. When we fear the government, there is tyranny [9/11 placed the fear deep into our lives] but when we do not fear it, it brings about freedom and liberty. You say you don’t fear it but that is from not knowing the whole agenda.

Fearing inevitability is ludicrous! Why fear something that you know is going to happen? That's like being afraid to die. Every living thing dies. Even though this isn't anywhere close to inevitability, if you know it's going to happen why even warn people? People in Germany knew of the Holocaust & they still died. The only way some of them escaped is by running. Where the hell are we supposed to "run" to save ourselves? If it's a new world order there is no escape. You need to think about that for a minute because it's slipped your mind. Even if this is true what the hell can we do? Huh? You still haven't answered that question.

The only reason that I hope it doesn't happen soon is because I know that people can still wake up BEFORE it happens so they can prepare. Failing to prepare BEFORE it happens results in chaos. I fear that when it does happen, you will shrink in absolute despair and probably seek a quick exit strategy from life. Don't believe me, but I DO care for you.

Nuff said.

Again, how do we "prepare"? You still haven't said that. The only thing you have said is that we should, not how. You don't know do you? Alex hasn't told you guys how you should "hide" to protect your "loved ones" has he? I don't believe you & quite frankly I don't want someone like you to "care" for me.

Not even close to "nuff said". You keep contradicting yourself and every single time you do you take a large step backwards. It's only a matter of time before you can't step back & you have to face the truth, either that or jump off of the cliff you've made for yourself.

I said this:

People ask me what should we do with this information? Anything that you feel is appropriate to do inside of legal parameters. Stock up on food and water. If you can, get some means of protection. Warn pregnant women and mothers with kids. Tell everyone and anyone...if you want to. I WANT TO! I'm here to break in half any perception that I'm racist because I disagree with the corruption that Obama is allowing to happen based on the fact that he is a puppet! If he was green with red dots and still engaged in corruption, I'd still speak out against him. Just like my analogies of a coming storm or danger's, if those was coming, I'd let people know too. And one last thing to add fuel to the fire is that I do believe in God and that justice cannot sleep forever.

In THIS post: http://www.nsaneforums.com/index.php?showt...40&start=40

[shought]

I would like to ask you both to refrain from any personal remarks.

ps this comment is not regarding the last .. posts, it's just in general ;)

Also Ambrocious I've sent you a PM and I don't think you replied to it yet, or I just don't recall it... If you don't want to reply that's fine :)