Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

[Reefa]

Last week changes to the Windows 10 upgrade path mean it is going to become increasingly difficult for any non-techy users to avoid being pushed to Microsoft MSFT +1.89%’s new operating system. But given Windows 10 is better than Windows 7 and Windows 8, why would that be a problem? Because of policies like this…

Speaking to PC World, Microsoft Corporate Vice President Joe Belfiore explained that Windows 10 is constantly tracking how it operates and how you are using it and sending that information back to Microsoft by default. More importantly he also confirmed that, despite offering some options to turn elements of tracking off, core data collection simply cannot be stopped:

“In the cases where we’ve not provided options, we feel that those things have to do with the health of the system,” he said. “In the case of knowing that our system that we’ve created is crashing, or is having serious performance problems, we view that as so helpful to the ecosystem and so not an issue of personal privacy, that today we collect that data so that we make that experience better for everyone.”

This backs up detailed data that some had chosen to dismiss as conspiracy theories.

Still, whether or not you agree with Belfiore’s standpoint that this doesn’t invade user privacy, it does seem strange that it has taken Microsoft so long to come clean and admit core Windows 10 background data collection processes cannot be stopped. Instead it gave the impression that turning off all user accessible spying options in Windows 10 settings would provide owners with full privacy – that’s tantamount to spying.

To his credit, Belfiore does recognise the controversial nature of this decision and stresses that:

“We’re going to continue to listen to what the broad public says about these decisions, and ultimately our goal is to balance the right thing happening for the most people – really, for everyone – with complexity that comes with putting in a whole lot of control.”

Interestingly Belfiore himself won’t be around to oversee this as he is about to take a year long sabbatical. When he comes back, however, I suspect this issue will still be raging as Windows and Devices Group head Terry Myerson recently confirmed Windows 10 Enterprise users will be able to disable every single aspect of Microsoft data collection.

This comes in combination with Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise users’ ability to permanently disable automatic updates which are forced upon consumers and shows the growing divide between how Microsoft is treating consumers versus corporations.

So how concerned should users be about Windows 10’s default data collection policies? I would say very.

By default Windows 10 Home is allowed to control your bandwidth usage, install any software it wants whenever it wants (without providing detailed information on what these updates do), display ads in the Start Menu (currently it has been limited to app advertisements), send your hardware details and any changes you make to Microsoft and even log your browser history and keystrokes which the Windows End User Licence Agreement (EULA) states you allow Microsoft to use for analysis.

The good news: even if Belfiore states you cannot switch off everything, editing your privacy settings will disable the worst of these. To find them open the Start menu > Settings > Privacy.

The bad news: despite Belfiore’s pledge “to continue to listen”, Microsoft’s actions (including the impending Windows 7 and Windows 8 upgrade pressure) suggests the company’s recent love for Big Brother tactics is only going to get worse before it gets better…

forbes.com

[Holmes]

Hes got balls to admit that and Im sure those who agree to disagree with him can easily hack the operating system and stop data collection that way. This is going to be why they dont hit there goal of one billion devices in three years and when they dont they cant bitch about it and say why.

[OrbingStorm]

Perhaps the NSa and co and Microsoft have merged into one.I have been told they (nsa) even have an office in their headquarters?

Perhaps we are all just paranoid and microsoft are just great.

Either way,what could they want with billions of ppls data?

Would a government ever turn on its people?

Perhaps we need nicer governments.

[TheDude]

Microsoft is a US based company and they have no choice but to comply with US laws.

And if they are being forced to collect data on behalf of the NSA / CIA they would never be able to openly admit it.

Not without breaking the anti-terror laws that are designed to make any kind of unauthorised disclosure illegal.

And if you resist they threaten you with jail time and financial ruin.

[virge]

Windows 10: NSA Edition

[Jordan]

Spying was implemented since Windows 7 & 8.

what are the consequences for the common user?

whate are the consequences on his cyberlife?

what are the consequences on his real life?

has nsa&co the ability to parse all the data of a whole planet?

what can they do in non-compliant countries?

important note: nsa&co are also spying on mac & linux users.

maybe the answers to these questions can give users an exact idea of the problem.

[scorpionx]

Windows 10 i am disappointed and scared

[csmdew]

young folks paranoid and old folks don't care, no happy mediam

[straycat19]

I have been trying to tell people for a long time that you cannot turn off all the spying in windows 10 and now Microsoft has confirmed what I have been saying even as recent as yesterday in response to a post about turning off privacy settings. I don't see why anyone would keep defending their use of windows 10 and Microsoft.

[mirassol]

Imo besides spying bits windows 10 is not a good OS in 2015 standards.

[OrbingStorm]

Maybe we should just let them spy away.What are they gonna do?Come knocking at your door?

[steven36]

When Microsoft released Windows 10 on July 29, the new operating system was already mired in controversy due to the way it monitors users' activities and reports back to Microsoft. Many news sites including The New American wrote about the spyware features of Windows 10. Some considered that reporting to be little more than fanciful conspiracy theories and exaggerations.

With recent admissions from the Redmond, Washington, software giant, however, it is now clear that those reports were accurate and that Windows 10 — as an operating system — is spyware.

From the outset, Microsoft decided on the previously unheard of move of making the new operating system available free of charge in a rolling update to all current users of Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 via Windows update. Many wondered why the company would give away licenses to use the new operating system. As The New American reported at the time:

It appears that the reason is simple: greater data-mining opportunities. Windows operating systems have long included security weaknesses that leave users vulnerable to spying and data-mining from others. What is different with the newest iteration of Windows is that Microsoft is directly involved in that spying and data-mining and has built the entire operating system in such a way as to allow it.

The Microsoft Services Agreement and its accompanying documents, to which one must agree before installing or using any Microsoft product or service, run roughly 40,000 words and would take 110 pages to print. Agreeing to these documents grants Microsoft the right to read, save, and share anything stored on or accessed using any computer running Microsoft Windows, as well as any computer using any Microsoft products or services.

What this means is that users who "upgrade" to Windows 10 or who purchase a PC with Windows 10 preinstalled have already agreed to allow Microsoft to read every e-mail, private message, calendar entry, document, and any other text; to view all photos, videos, charts, graphs, and any other graphic; to monitor and record all web traffic, searches, and downloads; and capture all keystrokes. Microsoft is then able to save and share that information at its discretion. As The Microsoft Privacy Policy puts it:

We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary.

Privacy advocates pointed out the ludicrous danger of having an operating system that is itself spyware. Microsoft apologists attempted to brush those concerns aside, saying the dangers were being blown out of proportion. After all, they said, turning these "features" off is a simple matter of changing the privacy settings.

As we said then, it is not such a simple matter. In fact it is an incredibly laborious task, and in some instances may not even be possible:

Because Windows 10 is set up to allow all this data collection by default, disabling data collection (where it is even possible to do so) will also disable most of the features that are the main selling points of the operating system. In addition, it is an arduous and time-consuming process involving going through at least 13 different screens in the privacy settings.

Many Microsoft users elected to keep their current operating systems and refused the "update" when they were notified that it was available to them. In late August, Microsoft — in an apparent move to broaden its spyware capabilities — changed the way it sends software updates to PCs running Windows 7, 8, and 8.1. Software updates, which had previously included a description with enough detail to allow users to make an informed decision about whether or not to install the update, began simply coming in without any description of the update or what it does. The new description said only that the update "includes improvements to enhance the functionality of Windows."

At about the same time, as we reported:

To make matters worse, Microsoft seems to be rolling out updates to Windows 7 and 8 that bring them into line with the "spyware" elements of Windows 10. Because Microsoft's Services Agreement and Privacy Policy apply to all products and services offered by Microsoft, it looks as though the company is expanding its spying to include Windows 7and 8. The New American covered the specifics of these agreements in a previous article. According to hakspek.com, "new updates that are being deployed to all Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 machines will turn their computers into a big piece of spyware, just like" Windows 10.

Again, privacy advocates and Microsoft apologists disagreed. Those on the privacy side of the fence cried foul. Those on the Microsoft side said the answer was to disable the updates and keep using Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. After all, no one is being forced to update or accept new "features." Except the problem with turning off automatic updates is that it can leave computers even more vulnerable to attacks and viruses, since the gaping security holes, for which Windows is famous, would never be patched.

Then, in mid-September, Microsoft users began getting the entire Windows 10 "upgrade" downloaded and installed on their PCs via those automatic updates — even if they had declined the download. Microsoft was simply going to make that decision for them. The files were downloaded to a hidden folder and the user was given a notification that their "upgrade" was ready. All they had to do was start the installation. Or not. Because in multiple cases, users would restart their PCs only to find Windows 10 was fully installed and operational.

As Forbes reported:

Microsoft changed the 'Optional' upgrade status of Windows 10 without any warning. The subtle change simply ticked the box beside the upgrade by default in Windows Update on Windows 7 and Windows 8. This meant an upgrade to Windows 10 would be automatically performed the next time the user installed any Important updates.

Microsoft has implemented a two-phase plan to force Windows 10 on all users of Windows 7, 8, and 8.1. The first phase is to change the classification of the Windows 10 update to "Optional," which will cause all users who have their PCs set to accept all updates (the recommended setting) to download and install Windows 10 automatically. This step is already in place. The next phase, which is set to begin in early 2016, will change the classification of the Windows 10 download to "Recommended." This is the default setting for all PCs running Windows 7, 8, and 8.1. What this means is that all but the most tech savvy users will be forced into Windows 10.

Some still argued that this is not really that big an issue, because Windows 10 is better and people are going to upgrade eventually anyway. This just makes it easier. Besides, all that stuff about Microsoft spying on you through your PC is just a goofy conspiracy theory anyway, right?

Wrong.

In late October, PCWorld reported that Microsoft Corporate Vice President Joe Belfiore admitted that it is not possible to turn off all those surveillance settings. They are part of the operating system and that is that. "In the case of knowing that our system that we've created is crashing, or is having serious performance problems, we view that as so helpful to the ecosystem, and so not an issue of personal privacy, that today, we collect that data so that we make that experience better for everyone," he said. He went on to assert that the surveillance settings that cannot be turned off are not about privacy, saying, "In the cases where we've not provided options, we feel that those things have to do with the health of the system, and are not personal information or are not related to privacy."

That rings a little hollow after reading those sections of the The Microsoft Privacy Policy that allow Microsoft to scan the entire contents of users' hard drives and capture keystrokes while monitoring web traffic and reading e-mails.

As many users finally get their fill of Microsoft's heavy-handed policies that threaten both privacy and liberty, many of them are looking for alternatives and finding that Linux — which in almost all cases is free to download and install — fits the bill nicely. As this writer has said before about the differences between Windows and Linux:

By way of comparison, users who install any of the various distributions of the Linux operating system do not consent to any such agreements. In fact, the closest thing in Linux to any of this is a feature in Ubuntu that allows users to search Amazon from their desktop screen. That feature is easily disabled by clicking a single button.

Maybe users of Windows 7 and 8 who are concerned about privacy and liberty should consider declining Microsoft's offer for a free upgrade and simply "upgrade" to Linux.

In fact, in an article last year about how users can secure their PCs and data against surveillance by both overreaching governments and nosy corporations, this writer recommended replacing Windows with Linux. With the recent revelations about what Microsoft is doing, it may be worthwhile for more people to take a look at that option.

[in the interest of fairness, the writer of this article has been a Linux user for several years and does not use any Microsoft products or services. This article was written on his System76 Bonobo Extreme running Ubuntu 14.04 using LibreOffice 4.2.]

Source

[OrbingStorm]

If all windows programmes were written for linux as well I think there would be big trouble at microsoft.Thats the main reason people dont change imho.

When I use linux there is a strange feeling of getting your own life back and freedom.Its hard to explain.

[steven36]

Microsoft: Windows 10 Reports on Users; Can't Be Stopped

all written - is fairly, I guess.

but nevertheless, most people continues to use windows 10

because it's very, very convenient

take for example, the latest build - 10586: in this build I liked such universal apps as sway and twitter

It wasn't very convenient for me

1. I had to go through and try to block all that crap they call out very time consuming.

2. My old computer came widows 8 on it after upgraded to windows 10 just to find out my driver vendor AMD would not support windows 10 for my video card i had to get my driver from M$ they said.

3.M$ installed a bad driver so i had to use old ones before windows 10 came out.

4, My HHD was OK when i had windows 8.1 on next thing you know after put win10 on a few months it started not being able to find the drive to boot up . I reformatted it clean and a few weeks latter it killed the HHD all together.

5. I put another HHD i had in it and fixed it then i just installed Linux Mint on it . i want never put windows 10 in any of computers ever again. :)

[steven36]

It wasn't very convenient for me

1. I had to go through and try to block all that crap they call out very time consuming.

2. My old computer came widows 8 on it after upgraded to windows 10 just to find out my driver vendor AMD would not support windows 10 i had to get my driver from M$ they.

3.M$ installed a bad driver so i had to use old ones before windows 10 came out.

4, My HHD was OK when i had windows 8.1 on next thing you know after put win10 on a few months it started not being able to find the drive to boot up . I reformatted it clean and a few weeks latter it killed the HHD all together.

5. I put another HHD i had in it and fixed it then i just installed Linux Mint on it . i want never put windows 10 in any of computers ever again. :)

sympathise, also had a similar issue

...I decided to completely disable windows update, drivers & other M$update crap etc

If you would told me that i would become a Linux user back before windows 10 came out . I would told you was nuts . Because I didn't know what i know now about Windows 10 and didn't understand Linux really I only had tested it in VM . But now I understand it I can do just about anything I want on it . I still have win 8.1 i get on sometimes but not very often anymore .

[steven36]

for example: I have a problematic nvidia video card - it works perfectly in windows 7\8\8.1

but as soon as install windows 10 it immediately begins to crash

and in build 10586 at all - i prohibit driver update for it, but after some time later in wu again appears a driver update for it

that's why I have disabled windows update

When ever Microsoft decides to change there privacy policy i may give windows 10 a 2nd look (I doubt this will ever happen) . I used it from the day it came out RT tell about a week ago . I installed AMD drivers for Linux and had no trouble . Windows 10 kind reminds me of the old days when millions use install programs with spyware to download songs and stuff . So windows users have always exposed themselves to this madness and most of it is self inflected. But this time 15 years latter its the whole windows O/S that's about as bad as it could get.

[steven36]

When ever Microsoft decides to change there privacy policy i may give windows 10 a 2nd look (I doubt this will ever happen) . I used it from the day it came out RT tell about a week ago . I installed AMD drivers for Linux and had no trouble . Windows 10 kind reminds me of the old days when millions use install programs with spyware to download songs and stuff . So windows users have always exposed themselves to this madness and most of it is self inflected. But this time 15 years latter its the whole windows O/S that's about as bad as it could get.

Agree...

However, I note that still, windows 10 works better, as with memory and drives, and as separate programs from third parties

...with all its spyware pieces :D

As a possible option: we can wait for official release ltsb th2

It didn't work no better for me than windows 8.1 did /does . Infact most old pcs cant even update to DX 12 to get the full benefit of windows 10 most are still using DX 11 with windows 10 unless they spent money for a upgrade are bought a new pc with windows 10. :P

[Holmes]

Know what funny the author of the article doesnt use windows ten he has no right to bitch about a operating system he doesnt use and if this truly was the problem of the eula there are programs that can make the eula easier to read its not about the eula its about what microsoft has admitted to and they have admitted in a different article this is a copycat that they collect data regardless. I have brought up the eula before and if you say the eula is tl; dr then use eulalyzer it breaks it down take the tl;dr excuse out of the equation if that was the problem its not. THis is directed towards the copycat:

http://www.nsaneforums.com/topic/255568-microsoft-windows-10-reports-on-users;-cant-be-stopped/?do=findComment&comment=1006043

As for the original They have the guts toadmit it and they finally decided to give us all the information for windows updates who knows windows ten can get better.

[jamesDDI]

If i have understood well, with the enterprise edition it's possible disable all "those" privacy aspect?

[steven36]

If i have understood well, with the enterprise edition it's possible disable all "those" privacy aspect?

Yes and this just makes Microsoft look more suspicious. No normal people that bought a windows 7 or windows 8 key or pc has enterprise.

The fact that corporations can switch these privacy-invading features off only serves to make Microsoft’s official ‘no’ all the more suspicious. If Windows 10 is not sending user inputted data back to Microsoft? Then why are corporations given the option to switch it off completely? It doesn’t add up.

Neither does this: In January the US Navy’s Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command (SPAWAR) signed a 9.1 million deal with Microsoft to keep being supplied with custom security patches for now defunct Windows XP. The US Navy says that this is because it still relies on legacy products that run on XP. However, with all the security issues surrounding Windows 10 one can not help wondering if perhaps newer versions of Windows have for some time been considered too invasive for military use. Let us not forget that tech-heads have always considered Windows a security risk. Those experts standard advice remains to use Linux (Ubuntu) if you really want to leave behind Microsoft’s risky OS once and for all.

Sadly, it seems that this debate is set to continue into the foreseeable future. Primarily because Microsoft is as close as it gets to ‘too big to fail’, and is comfortably positioned in a two firm Oligopoly that does not look on the verge of collapse. An elite position that lets the firm force users to do what it wants with their machines, as opposed to what they want. Of this Joe Belfiore has reassured us.

With that in mind, the only good advice available to Windows 10 users is to switch off as many of its privacy-invading features as you can. Something you will likely have to do sooner rather than later, now that Microsoft has begun ramming it down people’s throats.

For those of you that want to disable as many invasive services as possible, here is my quick guide to making Windows 10 the best possible ‘privacy nightmare’ that it can be:

• Firstly you will want to deal with the tailored adverts system. To disable it go to Settings > Privacy > General and slide the option that says ‘Let apps use my advertising ID for experience across apps (turning this off will reset your ID)’ to the Off position. Now, turn off any ad blockers in your browser (as they interfere) and head over to choice.microsoft.com/en-us/opt-out. Once there, choose Off for ‘Personalized ads wherever I use my Microsoft account’ and ‘Personalized ads in this browser.’
• Now is time to disable Cortana. To do so open Cortana in your taskbar, and hit the notebook icon on the left-hand side of the popup. Click on Settings, and slide to Off the option that says ‘Cortana can give you suggestions, ideas, reminders, alerts, and more’. With Cortana gone, you also have the option to disable Bing results. If Bing is not your cup of tea then disable ‘Search online and include web results.’
• Now go back in Settings and go to Privacy > Speech, inking, and typing. Here you must click ‘stop getting to know me. That will disable the infamous keystroke logger, and voice recorder that has been causing so much debate.
• At this point click on ‘Go to Bing and manage personal info for all your devices.’ Where you can delete everything that Cortana has up to that point managed to figure out about you by clicking on Clear at the bottom.
• Fifth on your to-do list: go to Settings > Network & Internet > Wi-Fi > Manage Wi-Fi Settings. Here is where you turn off Wi-Fi Sense. Do that by sliding ‘Connect to suggested open hotspots’ and ‘Connect to open networks shared by my contacts’ to the Off position.
• To stop Windows 10 sharing system files and updates to your PC (and from your PC to other users) by default. Go to Settings > Update & Security > Windows Update > Advanced Options > Choose how updates are delivered. Here you will need to make the choice to either completely disable ‘Updates from more than one place’ or deciding to opt for sharing info just with ‘PCs on your local network’. Up to you.
• At this stage, you will want to stop Windows 10 from storing info on Microsoft’s servers. This is called OneDrive. To disable it: click the up arrow in your system tray. Choose OneDrive > Settings and deselect all 3 of the following options: ‘Start OneDrive automatically when I sign in to Windows.’ ‘Let me use OneDrive to fetch any of my files on this PC,’ and ‘Use Office to work on files with other people at the same time.’
• Now return to Settings > Privacy and select General, where you will want to turn off ‘Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future,’ and ‘Let websites provide locally relevant content by accessing my language list.’
• If you want to, you can also disable the Windows 10 Location service that is found directly under General. Here you can either get rid of it completely in Change or set it to Off only for that particular user,
• Continue down the list of apps under General and Location: disabling any of the features you do not want. Do consider carefully, however, as some options (like the Mail app looking in your contacts) may be beneficial.
• Microsoft Edge is the new Internet browser in Windows 10. It is set to communicate with Microsoft by default. To stop it, open Edge, click the menu (three horizontal dots) select Settings > View Advanced Settings. Here switch off everything that you do not want in the ‘Privacy and services’ section (‘show search suggestions’ and ‘Help protect me from malicious sites and downloads with SmartScreen filter’ may well be worth leaving on as they both serve legitimate functions.)
• Smart Screen is a feature that helps protect you from unwanted and malicious desktop programs. You should only disable this if you are certain about what you are doing. Otherwise, leave it on. To disable it go to Start menu > Control Panel. Select System and Security > Security and Maintenance, and choose ‘Change Windows SmartScreen settings’ from on the left. Now click the radio button next to ‘Don’t do anything (turn off Windows SmartScreen)’.
• If you do not want your Windows 10 settings to be available on your request other PC’s, then you should go to Settings > Accounts > Sync your settings and slide it to Off.
• Finally, disable the other SmartScreen filter in Settings > Privacy > General and slide the option that says ‘Turn on SmartScreen Filter to check web content (URLs) that Windows Store apps use’ also to Off.

https://www.bestvpn.com/blog/31089/microsoft-windows-10-always-collects-user-data-how-to-disable-some/

[mirassol]

Oh, i could care less whether it can be stopped or not, i have 7 and 8.1, which are more robust and faster than their precious windows 10.

[VileTouch]

Maybe we should just let them spy away.What are they gonna do?Come knocking at your door?

cough.... i'll just leave this here

[steven36]

Maybe we should just let them spy away.What are they gonna do?Come knocking at your door?

cough.... i'll just leave this here

You can tell none of these people ever used CB radios back before computers came out when they use to bust down you’re door for using illegal radios and amps . You got fined big time for just talking.. things people do on the internet today makes CB radio users look like saints . They act like censorship is something new when really its not history just repeats itself . the government has always controlled the airways and it could get much worse as it has been before.

[VileTouch]

Maybe we should just let them spy away.What are they gonna do?Come knocking at your door?

cough.... i'll just leave this here

You can tell none of these people ever used CB radios back before computers came out when they use to bust down you’re door for using illegal radios and amps . You got fined big time for just talking.. things people do on the internet today makes CB radio users look like saints . They act like censorship is something new when really its not history just repeats itself . the government has always controlled the airways and it could get much worse as it has been before.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

[Holmes]

If you want to completely stop data collection install enterprise edition and I know why have it for enterprise and not for home and pro users I dont know and they made windows ten free for one year to be like linux and make users think oh upgrade for free NICE and supposedly they set aside money to make up for the one year free upgrade everybody says they did it and there mentality for doing it is want it free its going to cost you your privacy and we are getting everything you say over voice type on your keyboard and all your private files on your hard drive to WE ARE THE DEVIL lawls (there is sarcasm in there lawls).