Demonoid & Dutch users

[shought]

Some of you might be interested in reading this, I have yet to find out any more but this does explain some things. Note: The method I operated in the chat(to upload files) is, obviously, no longer working.

Warning: It's a pretty long read.

<Shought> I need some staff, I've got a problem with uploading torrent(no, I'm not a newb) and I cannot access the forums(I could using Tor, but now that's blocked as well...). 
<Shought> torrents* 
<*******>  dutch ? 
<Shought> yes 
<*******>  they have been having problems on and off with connecting to Demonoid for quite some time...since the BREIN crap 
<Shought> Ok, so it's not caused by your site, but by ISP? 
<*******>  more than likely 
<Shought> how do you explain then, that I even can't upload anything when using Tor to upload?
<Shought> my ISP can't like 'filter' the upload button or something :P 
<Shought> but what you are telling me is that BREIN has at least something to do with the problems?  
<*******>  [Shought]: how do you explain then, that I even can't upload anything when using Tor to upload? - are you using tor to upload through or just scrape the tracker 
<Shought> no, to actually upload stuff 
<Shought> Ok, it's like this: 
<Shought> I can get to the upload page 
<*******>  tor isn't designed for that
<*******>  oh you mean the site upload page ?
<Shought> yes
<Shought> I can get there
<Shought> and enter everything 
<Shought> but when I press upload 
<Shought> I'm redirected to the frontpage 
<Shought> (which is then a bit weird looking) 
<Shought> I believe it's IMPOSSIBLE for my ISP to cause something like that 
<*******>  you're trying to upload an application ? 
<Shought> yes, but uploading in any other category won't do any good either(I've tried that solution).
<Shought> I mean, my ISP can not just somehow recognize ONLY the 'upload' script and block that and redirect me to the frontpage 
<*******>  it's an account bug 
<Shought> nope 
<*******>  not your ISP 
<Shought> registered a new account 
<Shought> doesn't work
<Shought> (yeah, I know I'm probably not allowed to have two accounts, but what the heck) 
<Shought> Also 
<Shought> I can not access the forums 
<Shought> I really believe that Demonoid is blocking me, rather than my ISP is blocking me from demonoid 
<*******>  that's your ISP..not us 
<Shought> I c, but why in the world would my ISP block the forums, but not the site??? 
<*******>  and you won't be able to upload any applications..regardless of how many accounts you register 
<*******>  no idea.. 
<Shought> It doesn't add up, logically 
<Shought> so, why won't I be able to upload applications? 
<*******>  trust me when I say you won't be able to..and leave it at that 
<*******>  for the time being 
<Shought> sigh, well, at least that confirmed my suspicions... 
<Shought> do you have any more stuff that you are allowed to tell me? 
<Shought> like: are we(dutch ppl) blocked from other sites or anything 
<Shought> or: why has BREIN succeeded at something dozens of other media defending companies couldn't? 
<*******>  the upload problem isn't related to you being dutch 
<*******>  first off 
<Shought> mkay... 
<Shought> so it's related to my IP 
<*******>  we don't block people specifically from the forum..but not the site..so that is something to do with your ISp 
<*******>  it's been ongoing for over a year now..we don't have much info as to a solution except use a proxy 
<Shought> a proxy to do what? 
<Shought> upload? 
<*******>  browse the forum 
<Shought> I c, the uploading stuff, you said that's not related to me being Dutch 
<Shought> can you tell me to what it is related? 
<*******>  no 
<*******>  sorry 
<*******>  lol 
<Shought> I c 
<Shought> but it is deliberate 
<*******>  [@*******]: trust me when I say you won't be able to..and leave it at that 
<Shought> hmmm, you think quoting that line will have any impact? 
<Shought> props not;) :P 
<*******>  nope..just that's all I'm going to say 
<Shought>;) 
<Shought> well, it's not me being dutch 
<Shought> other people that aren't VIP or something could upload 
<Shought> so it's also not my member group 
<Shought> if I create another account, that won't do any good 
<*******>  correct 
<Shought> well, that has to be either IP or MAC address 
<Shought> I can get a new IP, but I doubt if that'll help and I like this one :P 
<Shought> it's got a lot of 0's :P 
<*******>  lol 
<*******>  find something else to upload for now 
<*******>  besides an applicatin 
<*******>  o 
<Shought> hmmm, I've tried uploading in different categories 
<Shought> but that didn't do any good 
<Shought> concluding: 
<Shought> if IP='something like blocked', then check upload for .exe? 
<Shought> well, I suppose you won't block .rar since a lot of people use that for movies and the like as well 
<Shought> let's try that then :P 
<Shought> will be back in a min, trying to upload some rar file :P 
<Shought> or you could just tell me if it'd work, but I guess you won't 
<Shought> what music do you like? 
<*******>  anything that's good 
<Shought> hmmm, rock, rap? 
<Shought> btw: Uploading a rar file in another category does work, at least this convo wasn't a total waste of my time :P 
<Shought> and urs 
<*******>  only older rap 
<Shought> 2pac? 
<Shought> Eminem is good too though 
<*******>  so so 
<*******>  before him 
<Shought> and rock? Linkin Park? 
<*******>  NWA, ice cube, public enemy 
<*******>  I like a couple of their songs..but not a fan 
<Shought> anyway 
<Shought> I can report my own torrents and request you mods to move them into another category can't I? 
<Shought> (A) 
<Shought> really, it's gonna bother you guys a lot more not letting me upload... 
<Shought> sure, you can ban me for being annoying... but I'll be back :P 
<Shought> not a threat, I just like a good joke now and then  
<Shought> you know what, I might even be able to change my category to another myself... 
<Shought> let's see if that works 
<*******>  worth a try.. 
<Shought> :P 
<Shought> could you answer this 
<Shought> if I find out a nice and good working way to upload 
<Shought> (applications) 
<Shought> would you guys then somehow try blocking it, IF I were to post it somewhere as a guide? 
<Shought> (like, when you guys notice more and more people are trying to upload like this?) 
<*******>  why would write a guide... 
<*******>  you 
<Shought> well, because I like to HELP people... 
<Shought> just give me a yes or no please :) 
<*******>  the block is in place for a reason..if people started getting around it..then further measures would be taken 
<Shought> I see... 
<Shought> that reason is classified as well, I guess? 
<Shought> ? 
<*******>  I've already told you..end of discussion 
<Shought> ok, one last question: do I know more now then I already should? 
<Shought> if no I can easily go ahead and tell what I know to anyone I see? 
<Shought> if you let me know wtf is going on and tell me to keep my mouth shut about that shit, I will... 
<*******>  no 
<Shought> meh, can I talk to, what's his name again, your mysterious and secretive(non-existant) Admin? 
<*******>  lol good luck getting a response 
<Shought> but I'm asking you, can I talk to him... 
<*******>  Umlauf doesn't idle on irc 
<Shought> uhuh, I noticed that 
<*******>  so you can try sending him a PM..but I doubt he will reply 
<*******>  on the site 
<Shought> Is there any way I can reach him, with him actually noticing? 
<Shought> could you ask him something for me? 
<Shought> clearly you've been instructed not to tell anything 
<Shought> but Umlauf should know what he can tell to who and what not, I guess? 
<Shought> I must say, you've seriously done a good job evading most of my questions :P
<Shought> Ok, I guess this means conversation is over... Well, thanks for your time...
<Shought> aight, no hugs and kisses for goodbye? Well, cya then... :P

You should note that at first they have nothing to do with any block and have no idea as to what might be causing the problem(apart from my ISP, which is obviously bullshit), but in the end they acknowledge that there is some kind of block in place and that if people would be 'getting around it' there would be further measurements taken, quite odd for someone who doesn't know what the hell is going on to threaten someone with further measurements.

I would like to hear any more information you might have about this 'issue'.

[Toshiro]

Omfg, he just talked himself out :\

:rofl:

Uhm, Do you think there's a reason for such a block?

[bearoninternet]

Sounds to me demonoid must have been setting up some kind of deal with brein; they put on a filter preventing dutch people to upload apps, and brein won't be bothering them in return.

Its not illegal to download music / movies etc according to Dutch law, except for copyrighted software.

[shought]

Didn't know that you were an 'expert' on that bearoninternet :rofl:

Yeah, I guess it's some kind of deal with BREIN... Sucks though.

[bearoninternet]

Didn't know that you were an 'expert' on that bearoninternet ;)

Yeah, I guess it's some kind of deal with BREIN... Sucks though.

I'm no expert, just common sense. :hi:

And yes, it sucks big time, let's hope they won't block the piratebay as they are trying to do right now.

This brein is a no-brainer. :hi:

[shought]

Hehe, I'm getting the feeling you're either Dutch, Belgian or you speak Dutch :hi:

Ah well, I'd suggest that ThePirateBay would not block uploads from Dutch users, but just block Dutch users altogether, then we'll just use proxies ;)

[Mavol]

Thanks for sharing that convo shought. It becomes quite obvious that they are blocking users on purpose when he starts calling it "an account bug" instead of an ISP problem.

the block is in place for a reason..if people started getting around it..then further measures would be taken

Doesn't necessarily mean that Demonoid is responsible, but given that he admitted to "an account bug", it all points in the direction of Demonoid purposely blocking Dutch user uploads.

[shought]

I've waited some time since I requested further correspondence, but they ignored my every message :lol:

Also I get the feeling this 'Umlauf' guy is not a person, it's just a fictional person they made up to ensure their safety, I think. No proof on that though.

I do believe we've got an exclusive here though, I've never seen anybody discuss this anywhere...

[Mavol]

I believe Demonoid is hosted in the Ukraine, so I don't see any reason for them to comply to a Dutch request...unless the owner (whatever his name is) lives in The Netherlands of course. hmm..

[jalaffa]

If this suggested conspiracy is true, for sure there must be some reports of it (from others than Shought I mean).

[shought]

If this suggested conspiracy is true, for sure there must be some reports of it (from others than Shought I mean).

No really, I've searched about this issue for a long time and the only reports date back to 2007(when the site was actually down for more users than just Dutch users), just the fact that when I started the conversation explaining my problem and he replied 'Dutch?' proves something already.

I should mention that there is no evidence for my theory on the 'non-existent admin', but I've got a strong feeling this is actually the case.

In the Netherlands

On June 26, 2007, Demonoid went down for hardware failures, supposedly unrelated to concurrent legal issues.[10][11] Demonoid's ISP Leaseweb had been ordered by the Dutch police to take down the website.[citation needed] Later, the Dutch anti-piracy organization Bescherming Rechten Entertainment Industrie Nederland filed a subpoena against Leaseweb, demanding that Demonoid be taken down[10][12] with a penalty of €50,000 per day otherwise.[13] Leaseweb, after delaying as long as possible, divulged to BREIN the name, address and banking information of the registered owner of Demonoid and signed the cease and desist demand.[13] It is unclear whether Leaseweb treated this in the same manner in which they appealed for another client, Everlasting.nu.[13][14]

Planning for this, Demonoid moved to Laval, Quebec, Canada to avoid BREIN's jurisdiction.[15] The time needed to relocate was speculated to be the real reason behind the downtime,[10] with BREIN describing it as a game of hide and seek.[16]

(...)

On April 10, 2008, Deimos stepped down as the administrator of Demonoid, citing a number of reasons and "distraction with real-world issues"[23] as the cause. He also stated that he has "handed the reins over to a new administrator - a close friend of mine, which I trust completely and has the knowledge and time to take care of the site."

(...)

Also, there was an unexplained issue that prevented access to the site from the Netherlands, Belgium, Brazil, Ukraine, and India.[26] On February 7th, 2009, the website became accessible from the Netherlands. As of March 2009, users in Belgium and Brazil can access the website again. And as of 9th April 2009 the site is accessible in India, too.

[dumble]

thanks for sharing shought