Life sentence for Gay Ugandans

[Turk]

Uganda has passed an anti-gay bill that imposes life sentences for some homosexual acts.

In a move described by opponents as "a truly terrifying day for human rights", MPs voted overwhelmingly in favour of the bill.

It has been widely condemned by activists and world leaders, with US President Barack Obama describing the bill as "odious" and Archbishop Nobel Peace laureate Desmond Tutu comparing it to apartheid.

The bill does not include the death penalty, as it did for "aggravated homosexual acts" when first tabled in 2009. Instead, those caught engaging in homosexual acts for a second time, as well as for gay sex where one partner is a minor or is infected with HIV, will face life in prison.

Ugandan media reported that a proposal for a reduced 14-year sentence was rejected by MPs, who instead upheld the penalty of life imprisonment.

David Bahati, the MP behind the private member's bill, hailed its adoption as a victory against "evil" in Uganda, a deeply religious country where many have embraced evangelical Christianity.

"Because we are a God-fearing nation, we value life in a holistic way," he said on Friday. "It is because of those values that members of parliament passed this bill regardless of what the outside world thinks."

The bill must receive final approval from Yoweri Museveni, the Ugandan President.

As in many African countries, gay men and women in Uganda face harassment, violence and death threats.

After the vote, Frank Mugisha, one of Uganda's most prominent gay activists, declared himself "officially illegal".

"This is a truly terrifying day for human rights in Uganda," he said. "It will open a new era of fear and persecution. If this law is signed by President Museveni, I'd be thrown in jail for life and in all likelihood killed. We urgently need world leaders to call on President Museveni and demand he stops this bill of hate from becoming law."

Mr Mugisha said there was "panic" among the country's gay and lesbian people.

"I'm outraged that members of parliament have passed this bill in a very uninformed way. It has been rushed. It has not been scrutinised," he said. "I am worried about my community."

Leslie Lefkow, of Human Rights Watch, said the law was "abhorrent".

"The bill's provision on the criminalisation of 'promotion' is a direct attack on the legitimate work of national and international activists and organisations working to defend and promote human rights in Uganda," the group added.

Homosexuality was already illegal in Uganda under a colonial-era law, but Mr Bahati argued that tougher penalties were needed to counter the influence of gay people from Western countries.

Rebecca Kadaga, the parliamentary speaker, promised last year that the bill would be passed as a "Christmas gift" to Ugandans.

On Thursday, Uganda passed an anti-pornography bill banning miniskirts and sexually suggestive television content including music videos.

The law reportedly outlaws anything that "shows sexual parts of a person such as breasts, thighs, buttocks", as well as "any erotic behaviour intended to cause sexual excitement or any indecent act or behaviour tending to corrupt morals".

http://www.smh.com.au/world/life-sentence-for-gay-ugandans-20131221-2zrzt.html

[Reefa]

Understood ridiculous post..Sorry.

jalaffa edit:

"Posts should be respectful to other members of our community." This was not (and did not make a lot of sense either).

Edited December 23, 2013 by F3dupsk1Nup

[dMog]

kind of scary...and i wonder if info wars will condemn this ...or his followers..being as it not done by america ...i doubt they will even give it a second glance

[Turk]

.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Turk

[mazigh]

Why gays are refused in most societies? or why at least 95% of humans are homophobes? I don't think this came from nothing, so what's the reason? let's start a debate :)

[Beamslider]

I won't go into why or why not gays are not accepted in some societies. It is basically irrelevant. Bottom line is that no government has any business deciding what consenting adults can do with one another in a private situation. As as it really doesn't have any effect on them or their lives, it really isn't the business of other people either.

Rest assured that you should care that they are being persecuted because the same people or government may find a reason to persecute you next.

[dMog]

/

Edited December 22, 2013 by dMog

[Turk]

Del

Edited December 23, 2013 by Turk

[mazigh]

I won't go into why or why not gays are not accepted in some societies. It is basically irrelevant. Bottom line is that no government has any business deciding what consenting adults can do with one another in a private situation. As as it really doesn't have any effect on them or their lives, it really isn't the business of other people either.

Rest assured that you should care that they are being persecuted because the same people or government may find a reason to persecute you next.

Your answer maybe be called "Playing with logics or playing with arguments!", You try to avoid the main subject I posted and at the same time play the role of hero by using the argument you are favor in in a subject related to it :/, First I did not talked about control of governments over "people's liberties".. so talking about this has nothing to do about what I said, and most governments simply can't control what people do at their homes unless there is disturbing to neighbors.., What I said is related homophobia in societies in general perspective, and for a lot of people the issue is not when 2 gays share their lust in a private place.., the main issue is when they see them in streets and chatrooms seducing other people or kissing each other in public places or when they are asking the right to marry and adopt children...

[Ambrocious]

I won't go into why or why not gays are not accepted in some societies. It is basically irrelevant. Bottom line is that no government has any business deciding what consenting adults can do with one another in a private situation. As as it really doesn't have any effect on them or their lives, it really isn't the business of other people either.

Rest assured that you should care that they are being persecuted because the same people or government may find a reason to persecute you next.

I agree with this completely. Just because they are a minority DOESN'T mean they should be treated this way. This is how corrupt governments behave though; they start with one seemingly unpopular group and if no one else stands up for them in defense of thier rights, another group gets targeted as well. As a whole we have to protect each others rights and human rights, even if we don't agree with them.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Ambrocious

[Ambrocious]

kind of scary...and i wonder if info wars will condemn this ...or his followers..being as it not done by america ...i doubt they will even give it a second glance

You have obviously NEVER seen TerrorStorm A History of Government Sponsored Terrorism or ENDGAME: Blueprint For Global Enslavement. You try to make infowars sound as if they never expose other government corruption but they do ALL THE TIME. Go watch on YouTube those two documentries, they explain how other countries enagged in attrocities against thier people and abroad.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Ambrocious

[Beamslider]

I won't go into why or why not gays are not accepted in some societies. It is basically irrelevant. Bottom line is that no government has any business deciding what consenting adults can do with one another in a private situation. As as it really doesn't have any effect on them or their lives, it really isn't the business of other people either.

Rest assured that you should care that they are being persecuted because the same people or government may find a reason to persecute you next.

Your answer maybe be called "Playing with logics or playing with arguments!", You try to avoid the main subject I posted and at the same time play the role of hero by using the argument you are favor in in a subject related to it :/, First I did not talked about control of governments over "people's liberties".. so talking about this has nothing to do about what I said, and most governments simply can't control what people do at their homes unless there is disturbing to neighbors.., What I said is related homophobia in societies in general perspective, and for a lot of people the issue is not when 2 gays share their lust in a private place.., the main issue is when they see them in streets and chatrooms seducing other people or kissing each other in public places or when they are asking the right to marry and adopt children...

The thread however is indeed about a government taking away some of its citizens freedoms and rights. You are the one that decided to shift the subject.

These laws in the original post don't seem to have any thing to do with public displays of affection.

But even a display of affection in public as long as it does not involve pornography or sex does not qualify as something that should be punished... Offending your idea of morality does not qualify as a crime. You may well do something in public that you believe to be normal that offends other people. Should you be prosecuted for it?

Again your question about why some societies or people don't like gays is irrelevant to the subject. Morality has no place in government. Laws should not be put into to force decide what is morally correct in the minds of society. That is not the function of government.

Do people not have the right to lobby for rights they believe they should be entitled to?

Edited December 22, 2013 by Beamslider

[janedoe]

Laws should not be put into to force decide what is morally correct in the minds of society.

My comment is primarily about this sentence above. What do you believe is the basis of most laws then if not common morality? After all, in a country like America committing bigamy, polygamy, adultery etc. would land you in trouble in many states (possibly even serious trouble, since something like adultery is a felony and even worthy of a life sentence as per some outmoded state laws). In some other societies though such things are perfectly acceptable. Aren't the laws then all about a particular society's morals, and what it believes on the whole to be right and wrong? Aren't burglary and murder morally wrong and rightly legislated against? And aren't laws changed as and when society's notion of what is immoral or not changes with time?

The problem in this case as you rightly pointed out earlier is where the government or legal system's jurisdiction should end and what should be considered the private inviolable sphere of an individual, where his/her actions aren't detrimental to others or to society as a whole (and when I say detrimental, I mean not in the sense of decay of religious values but in a practical/physical sense).

[ffi]

I won't go into why or why not gays are not accepted in some societies. It is basically irrelevant. Bottom line is that no government has any business deciding what consenting adults can do with one another in a private situation. As as it really doesn't have any effect on them or their lives, it really isn't the business of other people either.

Rest assured that you should care that they are being persecuted because the same people or government may find a reason to persecute you next.

Your answer maybe be called "Playing with logics or playing with arguments!", You try to avoid the main subject I posted and at the same time play the role of hero by using the argument you are favor in in a subject related to it :/, First I did not talked about control of governments over "people's liberties".. so talking about this has nothing to do about what I said, and most governments simply can't control what people do at their homes unless there is disturbing to neighbors.., What I said is related homophobia in societies in general perspective, and for a lot of people the issue is not when 2 gays share their lust in a private place.., the main issue is when they see them in streets and chatrooms seducing other people or kissing each other in public places or when they are asking the right to marry and adopt children...

I already felt Beamslider said all there was to say that mattered on this topic, what consenting adults do amongst each other is no one else' business but in ancient Greece homosexual relations between older men and adolescent boys were quite accepted, it's just that the abrahamic religions (judaism, christianity and mohammedanism) don't take to kindly on homosexuality and that these religions represent (unfortunately) a majority of people around the world.

[Beamslider]

I don't think we necessarily disagree on premise just the use of "morality".

Laws covering things such as theft and murder cover a situation where there is harm to another person and are well within the realm of governments to enforce and punish.

Laws such as archaic adultery laws in US states that are seldom or never enforced should not be on the books when in reference to consenting adults. These laws might very well be struck down if used and appealed to higher courts as well. It just isn't the governments business to define morality.. Preventing harm and keeping the peace yes...