New Windows 8.1 Requirements Strand Some Users on Windows 8

[Matsuda]

Windows 8.1 fixes many of Windows 8’s most glaring flaws, but not everyone is able to bask in the bountiful new features. Owners of some older PCs have found themselves stranded on Windows 8, trapped by a subtle tweak in Windows 8.1’s hardware requirements. And beyond the irritation factor, the issue could have troubling support implications for affected users, as Microsoft has told Windows 8 users they’ll need to upgrade to Windows 8.1 by 2015 to continue receiving critical system updates.

“I’m rather frustrated, because I see no need for Microsoft to have produced a point release OS update—or rather, a service pack—with significantly different system requirements that would leave my PC ‘marooned’ on Windows 8,” says Chip Sudderth, a PCWorld reader affected by the issue.

Atomic changes

That issue is Windows 8.1’s sudden need for CMPXCHG16b support in the 64-bit version. CMPXCHG16b allows for atomic memory exchanges. While modern 64-bit processors support CMPXCHG16b, some older hardware does not—but the requirement wasn’t a must-have for the 64-bit version of Windows 8. Trying to upgrade to Windows 8.1 on newly non-compatible hardware results in a message that your “CPU does not support CompareExchange 128.”

While we were investigating the issue, Microsoft confirmed to Neowin that some older AMD processors, such as the Athlon 64 X2 and Opteron 185, lack CMPXCHG16b compatibility and won’t work with Windows 8.1.

Now, Microsoft can’t support previous-gen processors in perpetuity, but a service pack seems like an odd place to pull the rug out from underneath owners of older machines. And the issue isn’t limited to AMD processors; Sudderth’s rig runs on an Intel Core 2 Quad, a chip that was a beast when it was released in 2008 and one still capable of playing today’s games. Core 2 processors are still the fourth most popular processor found in PCs, according to CPU-World’s user data.

Sudderth’s compatibility issues don’t stem from the chip itself, however.

After running into the CompareExchange 128 error with his original Q300 Core 2 CPU, Sudderth tried swapping in another Core 2 Quad chip, the Q9550S, which explicitly supports CMPXCHG16b. No dice.

I connected Sudderth with a top-level Microsoft support agent. Together, they determined that the issue was Sudderth’s Intel DP35DP motherboard—an older model that hasn’t received a firmware update since 2009. While the Core 2 chips supported CMPXCHG16b, the motherboard itself did not. No Windows 8.1 for him—or for this other Windows 8 user with an Intel DP35DP.

Unhappy Windows 8 users with an uncertain future

When asked to comment about compatibility issues, Microsoft representatives said technical support questions should go Microsoft’s Answer Desk. However, Microsoft told Neowin that “the number of affected processors are extremely small, since this instruction has been supported for greater than 10 years.”

As the troubles with Sudderth’s shows, however, just because an instruction was supported 10 years ago doesn’t mean it was ubiquitous 10 years ago. The Intel DP35DP was released six years ago, and the Core 2 family of processors was extremely popular.

Searching the Microsoft answers forum for CompareExchange 128 issues with Windows 8.1 returns more than 30 results. The issue has also been raised on numerous otherforums.

“It’s frustrating that an older but robust machine—one that can play modern PC games and run Windows 8 flawlessly—can be left behind after what is essentially a service pack release,” Sudderth says. Other forum-goers echo the same irritation. “I hope that I’m a rare exception, but I’m also concerned that Windows developers will target Windows 8.1 and leave me behind just as Microsoft did.”

The newly released modern UI Facebook app, for example, only runs in Windows 8.1.

More worrying than that, however, is Microsoft’s plan to discontinue support for Windows 8 “vanilla” after 2015. Beyond then, you’ll need Windows 8.1 installed to receive security patches and other updates.

What can you do if you’re affected?

If you’re stranded on Windows 8 and don’t want to buy a new machine—and why would you if it still rocks Battlefield without skipping a beat?—all might not be lost.

The CMPXCHG16b requirement only applies to the 64-bit installation of Windows 8.1; the 32-bit version should work just fine on your machine. (I say “should” because I haven’t been able to try it.) Now for the bad news: There’s no way to use the free Windows 8.1 update todowngrade from 64-bit to 32-bit, even if you try workarounds that skip the Windows Store and let you burn the update to a flash drive. You’d have to buy the 32-bit OEM version of Windows, which starts at $100, and do a fresh install. (Again: That’s in theory. I have not been able to confirm this.)

Or you could call Microsoft support and complain loudly enough to try to get a free copy. Because to be left marooned by shifting hardware requirements in a "point" update, with no way to downgrade to a compatible version and the threat of discontinued support lingering, is absolutely ludicrous.

I’ll let this irritated forum-goer have the last word: “It’s just amazing how Microsoft chooses to leave some of its users hanging out to dry because of these CPU related requirements.”



View: Original Article

[ffi]

I have spend an unhappy 3 days trying to get 8 upgraded to 8.1 on one laptop, after many many tries I decided to reinstall from the option in settings but that caused many many headaches as well. I like my OS seperated from all my data, so I had changed the registry to use D:/ in stead of %SystemDrive% but no matter how much I tried to undo the changes windows would not upgrade. I tried to delete the old user accounts but keep the data, than windows thinks it's a good idea to copy almost 200GB from 1 partition to another (which didn't even have the space for so much data.....just keep it there and let me decide what to do with it but after cancelling that stupid move the user account was gone and so where permissions for some of the files which couldn't be reclaimed (why is doing that sooooo sloooooowwwwww anyway?, it is like it need to do this for like a million different files, on linux it takes as much time as entering chown -R user:group directory...)

Now I have a laptop with an win8.1 but there is cruft leftover from the old install which windows won't let me remove and user data which windows won't let me access eventhough I claimed administrator ownership

Edited October 29, 2013 by ffi

[CODYQX4]

.

Edited April 28, 2019 by CODYQX4

[BDX]

Well you are still boned if that 2008 machine has plenty of RAM that x86 can't handle.

Then you can use this patch: http://wj32.org/wp/2013/10/25/pae-patch-updated-for-windows-8-1/

[Lacius]

If Microsoft cares at all about security, they will extend support for Windows 8.0 64-bit past 2015. If they do that, none of this is a big deal. It's Windows XP SP3 all over again. Windows XP 64-bit didn't receive SP3, and support only ended for SP2 32-bit.

[SPECTRUM]

If Microsoft cares at all about security, they will extend support for Windows 8.0 64-bit past 2015. If they do that, none of this is a big deal. It's Windows XP SP3 all over again. Windows XP 64-bit didn't receive SP3, and support only ended for SP2 32-bit.

that is because XP 64 use other kernel, it use Windows 2003 kernel.

[Lacius]

If Microsoft cares at all about security, they will extend support for Windows 8.0 64-bit past 2015. If they do that, none of this is a big deal. It's Windows XP SP3 all over again. Windows XP 64-bit didn't receive SP3, and support only ended for SP2 32-bit.

that is because XP 64 use other kernel, it use Windows 2003 kernel.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the fact that Microsoft has arbitrarily decided that some users are actually going to lose support in 2015 instead of 2023. For example, I have a friend whose hard drive recently died (the computer is from 2008 and would not support Windows 8.1), and she went ahead and purchased Windows 8.0 for the new replacement hard drive because, well, why not? After buying the latest OS from Microsoft in the year 2013, she's essentially being told "that OS is going to lose support in 2015, sorry."

[psyko666]

Windows 8.1 Secure Boot is a pain in the ass... was looking to get rid of the message on my desktop whole damn day! :angry:

[dMog]

well if your computer originally came with windows xp or windows 95 you cannot expect to forever be able to get the new OS...stuff inside the box gets outdated

[ricktendo]

Windows 8.1 Secure Boot is a pain in the ass... was looking to get rid of the message on my desktop whole damn day! :angry:

Patch was released today fixin this

[Lacius]

well if your computer originally came with windows xp or windows 95 you cannot expect to forever be able to get the new OS...stuff inside the box gets outdated

That's not at all the point. Of course older hardware eventually stops being supported by newer software. That's a fact of life and how it should happen. The problem is that a particular OS, Windows 8.0 64-bit, is going to cease support for people with certain hardware in the middle of its lifecycle, and it was all done needlessly. See my example of my friend who bought an OS that supports her 2008 laptop, Windows 8.0 64-bit, in 2013, and it's not going to get any support whatsoever (security updates, etc.) after 2015. If Microsoft is going to add new hardware requirements to an OS, which is completely normal and fine, it can't be an OS that is required as a service pack update if users of a preexisting OS are going to continue receiving support.

[calguyhunk]

well if your computer originally came with windows xp or windows 95 you cannot expect to forever be able to get the new OS...stuff inside the box gets outdated

The point is, if MS had to end Win8 support after only 2 years, they should have said as much before you bought a copy. Now that many have plonked down their hard earned cash for Win8 expecting the usual 10 odd year support cycle, this is nothing short of a betrayal and may even be a violation of consumer rights :dunno:

Won't allow Win8.1 installation on your system, fair enough, but to actively withdraw support for Win8 - on Win8 compatible machines - midway through it's life cycle is nothing short of a backstab and may even amount to unfair trade practice depending on the terms & conditions :mad2:

This is exactly how greedy corporates in general push their would be customers and the general populace further and further away from themselves. But as long as the bottomline is strong, they couldn't care less I'm afraid :(

Edited October 30, 2013 by calguyhunk

[GreenMan]

I've never tried it, but I think this solves the problem. I'm not sure if it affects stability or not, the author says it could.

bit.ly/18B8RZG

Edited October 30, 2013 by GreenMan

[rds084]

well if your computer originally came with windows xp or windows 95 you cannot expect to forever be able to get the new OS...stuff inside the box gets outdated

Me agree with stewie xD

[IAmKing]

It's the ol' "Oh gosh, your still well functioning PC can't run the new 8.1 update? Well I guess maybe it's time to buy a new PC", ....a new PC comes with a new M$ Win OS license,

Don't think for one minute that someone at M$ at least once said something similiar to that in their meetings regarding the known issue.

I have a still extremely well functioning HP Laserjet 1000, and HP refused to provide x64 capable drivers for it for quite a few owners needing the drivers with Win7 x64. What was HP's incentive to provide the drivers? ...none, rather quite the opposite, your option HP provided was to trade in your printer for a credit towards a new printer. Cha Ching!.

Edited October 30, 2013 by IAmKing

[dMog]

taken form the article....Or you could call Microsoft support and complain loudly enough to try to get a free copy. Because to be left marooned by shifting hardware requirements in a "point" update, with no way to downgrade to a compatible version and the threat of discontinued support lingering, is absolutely ludicrous....and yes there is away to comppain to get this free...after all bottom line is Microsoft wants your continued business($$$)

[dMog]

It's the ol' "Oh gosh, your still well functioning PC can't run the new 8.1 update? Well I guess maybe it's time to buy a new PC", ....a new PC comes with a new M$ Win OS license,

Don't think for one minute that someone at M$ at least once said something similiar to that in their meetings regarding the known issue.

I have a still extremely well functioning HP Laserjet 1000, and HP refused to provide x64 capable drivers for it for quite a few owners needing the drivers with Win7 x64. What was HP's incentive to provide the drivers? ...none, rather quite the opposite, your option HP provided was to trade in your printer for a credit towards a new printer. Cha Ching!.

... i would have informed HP that from this point forward no HP products of any kind would enter my house..and that you will email or phone them with every purchase you make in the future that does not have the HP logo on it and how much $$$ you did not give to HP...really not to give free drivers for printer that has a life span of a few years or less before you have to purchase a new printer is not the way to keep repeat customers,,,as for microsoft..let them know you next computer purchase will now certainly be an apple if they do not do anything to help you

Edited October 30, 2013 by dMog

[bsvols]

Am I the only one who has noticed that Microsoft has removed nearly ALL reference to Windows 8 from their various web sites, including their most easily found, made for the general (non-techie) public "windows.microsoft.com/" domain? Try looking around Ms. sites. Some only refer to Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.1; some list Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.1. You want confirmation that after only ~ 7 months, they have made Windows 8 into abondon-ware? Go to that previosly mentioned url (http://windows.microsoft.com/), click on "Support" at the top of that page, then scroll to the bottom for a listing of available (Supported) products. In the center of the big, black lower section you will find this product list -

Products

Windows 8.1

Windows RT 8.1

Internet Explorer

SkyDrive

Outlook.com

Windows 7

Windows Vista

Windows XP

Hotmail

Microsoft Security Essentials

It would appear that Windows 8 never even existed :blink: I believe that is about the goofiest thing I've come across this century!

Edited October 31, 2013 by bsvols

[bsvols]

I forgot to mention - I really Like windows 8, but I haven't tried 8.1 yet. It looks like Ms. is trying to make this 8.1 a damn-near mandatory update, and if it won't run on the same hardware as 8 then that just sucks Big Green donkey dongles. I removed XP, not too long ago, from the computer of an elderly family member, set up Windows 8 with StartIsBack, killed all of the "live" apps in "Metro" (no need to let unused apps constantly access the web) installed her three favourite low-tech games and her favourite browser to do online jigsaw puzzles and read email, and got her to try it for a while ( she REALLY hates change), and now she just plain Loves it. It is SOOooo much faster (and more secure). That machine is equipped with an AMD Athlon 64 3500+ with two GB's of ram that I installed a few years ago along with an Nvidia 8500GT, and it runs great with 8. Then I put all her OS and stuff on a Samsung SSD, and it now is a Bunch faster than any of current mid-entry level P.C.'s available (even if she wanted, would use, and could afford to "waste" the money to replace hers). And now they are going to abandon Windows 8 for an 8.1 update which almost certainly will not work on her computer? I think I'm gonna be sick! :footinmouth:

Edited October 31, 2013 by bsvols

[demoneye]

i see no BIG point to move from w8 (even w7 :D ) toward win 8.1.... in 2 years many things can happen , maybe like what happen to xp , they will extend the dead line time OR new os will arrive so no point to switch to 8.1 atm , and by doing that we send a big :moon: to greedy bastards over MS

Edited October 31, 2013 by demoneye

[MidnightDistortions]

I don't think any PC's from 95' can run W8.. some heavy duty workstations from 2000 that has dual processors might but this is yet another reason why W8 is giving users the finger, MS says W8 has support til 2023 then does 8.1 says that one has longer support while W8 only has 2 years is baloney. I applaud those who still run XP choose to stay on Xp because MS doesn't deserve the money. MS hopes to get everyone onto W8 so they think that whatever they do with Windows, people will deal with it. Problem is, there really isn't much competition for MS on the desktop world which is why they are doing these ridiculous tactics.

On one hand they are doing this 'strand W8 users' so that way people will be buying a new desktop but if they were going to buy a new desktop it would be because they want a new desktop. All i can say is good luck MS, your future looks bleaker then the XP users come retirement day.