Should Authorities Decrypt VPNs and Tor – or Ban Them Altogether?

[shamu726]

There are many legitimate uses for technology such as VPNs and Tor but of course there are those who use them for criminal and objectionable practices. As Russia prepares an attempt to ban Tor completely, police in Sweden now want to be able to gain access to encrypted communications in cases of serious abuse. But should the privacy rights of millions be utterly compromised because of the activities of the few?

If the revelations of Edward Snowden have taught us anything, it’s that our activities online can hardly be considered private.

When we write private emails or fire off instant messages, someone somewhere has the ability to access their contents and, if necessary, act on what they’ve seen.

We’re told that this is a necessary evil, that our countries’ security depends on us giving up some of our freedoms, indeed some of our rights – including the right to privacy – in order to keep us all safe from the ill intentions of the world’s bogeymen.

But despite the assurances of our leaders, most of us simply don’t want to be spied on.

You almost certainly can’t tell, but this article was placed on TorrentFreak’s servers using an encrypted connection. There’s nothing illegal about this article or the way it was written and its author isn’t wanted for crimes anywhere and isn’t trying to cover any up. Encryption has simply become part of life and turning on a VPN here is now as natural as firing up a browser.

But with the perhaps needlessly over-cautious cast aside for a moment, there are those who really do need to stay encrypted for genuinely important reasons. For dissidents around the globe privacy can be a matter of life and death and for whistle-blowers the need to remain in the shadows is paramount, as the unfortunate cases of Manning and Snowden illustrate.

Sadly, and despite all the good carried out via encrypted communications such as Tor, there’s a bitter pill to swallow. There are criminals – serious criminals committing horrible crimes – that use these very same systems in order to hide their identities. What’s to be done about these individuals when their online activities are cloaked? Swedish police think they have the answer.

“We must have a law that allows us to get access to the encrypted services. We need to get a key to access the serious crime,” says Per-Åke Wecksell from the Cybercrime Section of the National Criminal Investigation Department.

Wecksell says gaining back-door access to encryption services is necessary to clamp down on the growing problem of child abuse. Those who engage in such activities are now acutely aware they’re targets for the police so they’re increasingly taking special steps to ensure they remain untraceable.

But of course, once police have the authority to decrypt encryption (and it’s currently extremely unclear how that could be achieved from a technical standpoint), the security of non-abusers using these systems take a massive hit too, through no fault of their own.

“In the world outside the Internet, the police do not go to any lengths to try to chase criminals, for the simple reason that it would hurt other people. It’s the same online,” says Anna Troberg, chairman of the Pirate Party.

“For example, I have talked with a lot with human rights organizations that are totally dependent on having encrypted information to do their work with activists in other countries, that opportunity would surely be threatened if the police have the ability to decrypt things.”

Of course, it could be argued that restraints could be put on the police so that any new law states clearly that decryption could only take place in cases of suspected child abuse. However, during the crafting of any new legislation there would be calls by interested parties to throw other crimes into the mix – terrorism and issues of national security for instance.

A likely catch-all term of decryption for only “serious crimes” would then be wide open for manipulation by interested parties, meaning that while today abusers and terrorists would be hunted down, tomorrow’s targets would include whistleblowers traitors such as Edward Snowden and alleged copyright infringers master criminals such as Kim Dotcom.

Russia is currently grappling with the same issue, although they appear to be going down a different route. According to local news reports, the head of the Federal Security Service (FSB) has initiated a process which will see the introduction of laws that will not allow the decryption of Tor and other anonymous networks, but will ban them completely from the Russian controlled Internet.

The process was uncovered when a request to have Tor blocked on the grounds it is used by child abusers was sent to the FSB by the Bounty Hunters civil movement. But even the movement have their doubts about blocking. Their chief, Sergey Zhuk, told Russian media that he would prefer it if Tor operators were forced to work with the authorities instead.

So it appears we are left with three current approaches.

1 – The status quo where everyone keeps their privacy, serious criminals included.
2 – Trusting the police with the keys in the hope they only go after the really bad guys.
3 – Blocking anonymity tools altogether.

The battle now, to maintain a free and open Internet and the privacy rights of millions, is to find a way to weed out the bad guys without ruining it for everyone else. It might be the most complicated Internet task ever carried out, but someone is going to have to find a fourth option.

Source: TorrentFreak

[Ambrocious]

The more that laws are made, the more it makes ordinary people into criminals. They know full well how to find people even through VPN's and Tor, it's called the MAC adress. They can find a person who's internet is OFF even and identify them via thier MAC adress, it's that simple.

[locoJoe]

and identify them via thier MAC adress, it's that simple.

After reading this and drinking a little rum, I've reached a conclusion. The government can identify me by my big penis, and then suck it!

[danieltex]

The real truth, is that the governments do not want this to enable them to catch criminals or spies or terrorists.

This is because all those "professional" spooks and bad guys will always use totally secure forms of one time pad based communications or unique encryptions systems which are uncrackable even if not Tor or VPN encrypted.

You cannot crack a code made up between only two people which signifies pre arranged events or decisions, which is in essence what terrorists and spies and criminals will do.

Anyone in the intelligence community will tell you that for free. The only terrorists and criminals you will catch are the stupid ones who think that TOR and VPN's are secure now. They are not. Massive number bit encryption has flaws which can be exploited and it is not clear what the REAL current technology in quantum physics allows us to do there. Bet your bottom dollar the US have it in use.

The reason why governments want new laws is so that they can use openly the technology they are already deploying in secret.

At the moment, they cannot use evidence obtained by it because to do so exposes their tech level and its use.

Once these laws are through, the use of encrytion hacking will be "allowable", and they will not have to explain how they really did it.

They only want it to spy on us, the ordinary people. To crack down on the "ordinary" potential opponents to their governmental order, the whistle blowers who might bring down the people in power and in the case of the US the massive IP monopolies which are getting laws passed or enforced to increase their grip on their profits.

By opposing these laws, we are not stopping them snooping, we are stopping them from using that knowledge against us openly.

[GRiM]

The more that laws are made, the more it makes ordinary people into criminals. They know full well how to find people even through VPN's and Tor, it's called the MAC adress. They can find a person who's internet is OFF even and identify them via thier MAC adress, it's that simple.

Errr no its not "that simple" at all so please stop with your tinfoil hat rubbish because you seriously have no clue.

[Ambrocious]

The real truth, is that the governments do not want this to enable them to catch criminals or spies or terrorists.

This is because all those "professional" spooks and bad guys will always use totally secure forms of one time pad based communications or unique encryptions systems which are uncrackable even if not Tor or VPN encrypted.

You cannot crack a code made up between only two people which signifies pre arranged events or decisions, which is in essence what terrorists and spies and criminals will do.

Anyone in the intelligence community will tell you that for free. The only terrorists and criminals you will catch are the stupid ones who think that TOR and VPN's are secure now. They are not. Massive number bit encryption has flaws which can be exploited and it is not clear what the REAL current technology in quantum physics allows us to do there. Bet your bottom dollar the US have it in use.

The reason why governments want new laws is so that they can use openly the technology they are already deploying in secret.

At the moment, they cannot use evidence obtained by it because to do so exposes their tech level and its use.

Once these laws are through, the use of encrytion hacking will be "allowable", and they will not have to explain how they really did it.

They only want it to spy on us, the ordinary people. To crack down on the "ordinary" potential opponents to their governmental order, the whistle blowers who might bring down the people in power and in the case of the US the massive IP monopolies which are getting laws passed or enforced to increase their grip on their profits.

By opposing these laws, we are not stopping them snooping, we are stopping them from using that knowledge against us openly.

Very smart this one is, please stick around the nsaneforums, I like your mind.

[Ambrocious]

The more that laws are made, the more it makes ordinary people into criminals. They know full well how to find people even through VPN's and Tor, it's called the MAC adress. They can find a person who's internet is OFF even and identify them via thier MAC adress, it's that simple.

Errr no its not "that simple" at all so please stop with your tinfoil hat rubbish because you seriously have no clue.

Do you wanna wait for the info to come out as well, it's only a matter of time now.

First I was crazy when I first learned that we were all being spied on, then it came out that yes indeed, that's what is happening. I'm still the bad man for this though, it doesn't matter if I was right, I'm bad because I was right. How messed up is that? I think just a little messed up maybe. The funny thing is that I'm no one special, I just want the people to know so that maybe they can understand that Im here trying to help. Im here to say , "Hey, this is happening, be aware of it and guard yourself in the respective way you need to be".

Instead of thanks for the warning and for informing, I get called crazy. If I knew you in real life for like 10 years and we was neighbors and I saw that your house was on fire and I called you at work, I would say "Hey man, did you know your house is on fire?" You might be the kind of guy who responds with "Oh shut up, your crazy, my house is fine!"

Lets play the waiting game again OK? Let's see how long it takes for them to admit that our MAC addresses is how they are doing it. Im betting you already know this is true though, you can't be that uneducated.

Your MAC address is UNIQUE. Now, from that simple fact, does it seem likely they can find you with help of cell phone triangulation if the person has a phone OR they can hone into any new laptop on the market's GPS built in system, it doesn't matter if it's off, it's never really off, not for the government. Via GPS technology, cell phone triangulation, they can pull up information on you, use the gps to pull up your MAC number from your laptop, even if it's off, send a laser guided missile right directly on your head, directly in the CENTER of your head, with pin point accuracy. That's not science fiction buddy, that's real. They have the ability to do this stuff, they could do this stuff or very similar stuff 20 years ago! You and others need to stop being so gullible, realize I'm not here to disinform or misinform, I'm here because I care and I want others who may be able to do more than I can, protect yourselves too, guard yourselves.

I care because I don't have a lot of other things to worry about. My life is nearly non existent because of my past which is part of the reason I am considered disabled. So with what little that I have access to that could potentially help people out, I try and exhaust my energy into just informing people, no matter how crazy it sounds. I look at it like this:

People are not going to believe me and make fun of me for what I say, that is completely expected and I get it. I know that as the news comes out with more information about the things I previously said to prove that I am not crazy that you in turn will begin to realize I wasn't wrong. When this begins to happen as it already is happening, don't feel the need to say sorry, it's not necessary, just know where Im coming from. I am not your enemy. I do not seek attention for shits and giggles. I am not attempting to misguide people, and no, I am not in some weird teddybear bear cult.

Because I have so little left to live for, I try to pour my heart into what I do and it constantly gets torn to bits but It's expected. I know that many nsaneforums lurkers (those who read but almost never post) say that what I write and post are thought provoking and actually not boring, that's at least a plus in some weird Jerry Springer like way but hey, I'm making progress eh!? My point is this, I'm not afraid what you think about me or say about me because in the end, I'm not your enemy. I want you and others to know (those that think I must be a criminal or something). I don't want you to be hurt anymore by the lies. It is not your fault and I don't blame you. Just know when you do awaken to all of the things happening, please remember the things I have posted. I am just a messenger of sorts, I am really a true nobody.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Ambrocious

[dMog]

wow...

[GRiM]

TL;DR

The more that laws are made, the more it makes ordinary people into criminals. They know full well how to find people even through VPN's and Tor, it's called the MAC adress. They can find a person who's internet is OFF even and identify them via thier MAC adress, it's that simple.

Errr no its not "that simple" at all so please stop with your tinfoil hat rubbish because you seriously have no clue.

Do

TL;DR

Dude, you really need to get a life. There are other niche forums for such discussions, The fact that you're trying to shove all these theories (true or not) down everyone's throats every single day on a site like nsane shows how much of a weirdo you are.

Btw, back to what you said originally about been able to get a mac address through a VPN, do you even know how a VPN works? You cant even get a IP's Mac address through a router, never mind a VPN!!

You seriously need help or education young man.

Edited August 21, 2013 by GRiM

[Ambrocious]

TL;DR

The more that laws are made, the more it makes ordinary people into criminals. They know full well how to find people even through VPN's and Tor, it's called the MAC adress. They can find a person who's internet is OFF even and identify them via thier MAC adress, it's that simple.

Errr no its not "that simple" at all so please stop with your tinfoil hat rubbish because you seriously have no clue.

Do

TL;DR

Dude, you really need to get a life. There are other niche forums for such discussions, The fact that you're trying to shove all these theories (true or not) down everyone's throats every single day on a site like nsane shows how much of a weirdo you are.

Btw, back to what you said originally about been able to get a mac address through a VPN, do you even know how a VPN works? You cant even get a IP's Mac address through a router, never mind a VPN!!

You seriously need help or education young man.

Show me saying that we can gather a MAC adress via VPN.

[GRiM]

Show me saying that we can gather a MAC adress via VPN.

The more that laws are made, the more it makes ordinary people into criminals. They know full well how to find people even through VPN's and Tor, it's called the MAC adress. They can find a person who's internet is OFF even and identify them via thier MAC adress, it's that simple.

[AlexCross]

I think that the internet became popular only because it gives you freedom, if the freedom is taken away I don't see any reason why should, at least I, pay for internet.

Edited August 21, 2013 by AlexCross

[Ambrocious]

Show me saying that we can gather a MAC adress via VPN.

The more that laws are made, the more it makes ordinary people into criminals. They know full well how to find people even through VPN's and Tor, it's called the MAC adress. They can find a person who's internet is OFF even and identify them via thier MAC adress, it's that simple.

What I was trying to say is that even though we can use Tor and VPN, via GPS, we CAN be found. Sorry, my brain is still turning on today apparently lol.

[bgood]

wow..this thread needs 2 of the blue pills, chill out..

for those in not so friendly nations Tor on top of VPN with bitcoin for purchases..of course like all things how determined and cost effective is it for a goverment to invest in persuing..just to build a case.

you can change your MAC,unplug,burn your system to ashes & do it NOW!!..never remove your tin foil hat at no time,security through obscurity..no one will notice.

cheers!

oops..no i prefer they didn't decrypt

Edited August 21, 2013 by bgood