Piracy: Not Even God Himself Can Stop It

[nsane.forums]

While countries have their own laws, many individuals worldwide choose to be guided by their faith in matters of morality. When it comes to movie piracy, for example, some Christians may be believe “thou shalt not steal.” So it’s perhaps interesting that in the Middle East where a similar law exists, during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan piracy actually increases by 30%.

There are around 19 major world religions subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, in addition to many smaller ones.

Most religions have sets of rules which provide a moral framework for their followers – Christianity’s Ten Commandments is probably the most well known example.

In the West these religious ‘laws’ are often in harmony with the rules of land, in addition to providing extra moral guidance of course. Many religions have rules which cover property matters, specifically not taking that which doesn’t belong to them, the closest general notion (whether accurate or not) to the act of copyright infringement.

While there are always variations to the rule, Christianity, the world’s largest religion, declares that followers may not steal. Islam, the second largest religion, says that stealing is ‘haraam’ – forbidden by God.

But of course, many would argue that piracy isn’t stealing and indeed, when the rules for these religions were put in place, copyright infringement wasn’t even “a thing”. Fair enough, but for some piracy is still a moral issue for which their religion can provide guidance.

Instances of Christians asking whether piracy is morally acceptable proved difficult to find, but the same cannot be said about followers of Islam. And, amazingly, not only are there questions raised online by those hoping to lead a better life, but also specific responses from some of Islam’s most respected leaders.

“What is the ruling on copying computer software, movies, audio CDs and other such things, which bear the wording ‘All Rights Reserved’ or ‘Copyright’?” questioned one follower. “Does this rule apply equally to Muslim made products and those made by individuals and or companies which are not Muslim?”

The answer, provided by none other than Ayatollah Sistani, is clear.

“Copyrights must be respected,” he said. “It is not permissible to copy a product, if it is against law.”

Perhaps unsurprisingly there are other interpretations within the same religion, as can be seen here on a page listing Islamic financial issues.

“Abiding by [publication rights] is not obligatory, but it is preferable to seek permission, especially from the author,” the note reads.

But of course, copyright throws up plenty of other dilemmas, as a question to the Ayatollah from another follower illustrates.

“Can I use cracked CD software?” he asked. Apparently, no question is too obscure for this religious leader.

“If someone else has cracked the software, you can use it,” says Ayatollah Sistani, “but you are not allowed to copy or burn it into another compact disc.”

Some other fascinating interpretations of what is and isn’t allowed can be found in a question and answer session (YouTube) with Zakir Abdul Karim Naik, an Indian public speaker on the subject of Islam and comparative religion.

Dr. Naik begins by saying that generally piracy is forbidden, but not always. It all depends on whether the company selling the official product is acting in a fair manner.

“There are some items of software which many of the companies themselves [encourage] piracy of so that [the software] becomes famous,” Naik explains.

Small companies buy pirated copies for small amounts of money, Naik says, but this “buzz” means that large companies who can afford it go on to spend large sums of money on legitimate versions of the same software.

“So, for using pirated copies of this software, Islamically there is no problem,” says Dr. Naik.

But for me this is the most interesting question. One individual asks Dr. Naik whether the same rules apply for software spreading the Islamic message. He says that if that software is for sale in a country or city and people are only pirating it in order to save money, then that is forbidden. However, there are exceptions.

“If that software is not available, if it is software created abroad and no one locally has it [for sale] and the intention is not to save money but the intention is to use it for knowledge, then [piracy] is fine,” Naik says.

“But then, if you take that software and sell it, that is forbidden. If you make a copy and then give it free to your friend, then that is a gray area, but OK.”

In short, Dr. Naik says that if the product you need is not available in your area legally, then piracy is allowed as long as it is in the pursuit of knowledge. Doing the same for business purposes is not allowed.

But despite the wealth of information and rulings online, followers of the Muslim faith appear happy to pirate even during their most religious experiences. Currently the holy month of Ramadan is underway, but apparently that’s only making the piracy situation worse.

According to a report in the JordanTimes, sales of pirated movies and games increase by about 30% during Ramadan compared to the rest of the year.

Exactly why isn’t clear, and the law certainly doesn’t encourage it. Jordanian Copyright Law bans illegal downloading and copying along with prison sentences of between three months and three years.

When those kinds of punishments fail, along with the inevitable fires of hell for sinners also not making an impact, it’s clear that not even God himself can bring an end to piracy.

Finally, try not to kill each other in the comments section. Enough people have died in the name of religion, we don’t need any more casualties.

View: Original Article

[STEEL]

:shit: I thing God is just tired of us and know :lol: at the Hole Thing :rolleyes:

[SPECTRUM]

the word "piracy" for digital things doesn't exist, it was invented by politics that have no idea about technology.

share things is part of human nature, and yes, is an instinct.

[lurch234]

Some also said that the Titanic was unsinkable... :P

[AdyTChabadi]

God can put an end to whatever He desires to end and it stays ended until He changes His mind (if He changes His mind).

The problem is...do people have the desire to stop themselves? We have a free will to choose right or wrong, a choice God gives to everyone. To choose righteousness or to choose evil. It is up to you what you do with that choice.

I believe in freedom of information and it is wrong to put that behind a paywall, but also I believe people have a right to earn money. So I am not really sure how to respond.

Confliction abounds.

[Airstream_Bill]

Some also said that the Titanic was unsinkable... :P

You beat me to it. I was going to say that. Ha ha :D

[Karlston]

the word "piracy" for digital things doesn't exist, it was invented by politics that have no idea about technology.

From early on, piracy in respect to technology meant the making and selling of copies of audio tapes, video tapes, CD's, etc.

It's the idiot media that have abused the word's true meaning to now be "illegal copying". Just like they've done with words/phrases like hacker, homeowner, backflip, log on, and more...

Is my OCD showing? :)

[calguyhunk]

Is my OCD showing? :)

It's good to be a little nutty :P

BTW - what did homeowner originally mean? You own a house, you are one, aren't you? :dunno:

[Tweety.Abd]

Piracy is categorically and morally wrong, period. As for Dr. Naik's claims that it can be used for "educational" purposes. I used to be support piracy until I came to know of a friend who's life's work was just destroyed by piracy. He worked on a interactive software to help out the students, and put in a lot of his time and money on the project. Initially it was successful, so much so that even the schools recommended it to the students and he started to make a good living out of it. But then after a few months, he effectively had to shut down his project. His software is pretty popular, but he's no longer working on it because piracy obliterated his sales. Not all "small" software want popularity, I'd argue that they rather the most protection against piracy. Unfortunately for my friend he's still without a job, he just does whatever work to earn living.

There are few legitimate cases, though none of the mentioned above reflects such legitimate cases. There are legitimate (though arguable) defences of piracy, but lets be honest, how many of the pirates actually do it for legitimate reasons rather than just being cheap and lazy? People deserve payment for their time, effort and talent, and pirates deliberately deprive them of such deserved payment.

Not all artists or software authors are money-grubbing miser – they're far, far from that - and for some it is the only source of income to provide for a roof over their head and food on their table. I'll ask you this, is not a man entitled to the sweat of his brow?

[bgood]

sad to hear of folks misfortune..i get no satisfaction from others suffering and no use for them that do.

wealth based on assumption misinformation or whatever..some folks worked their whole lives to have it taken from them left with nothing..hear,here!!

living on planet earth may not be cheap but all the travel you could want..a trip around the sun once a year and another try hopefully sharing.

Cheers!

off soapbox

[napalm.neca]

I wouldn't go to the theatre even if there was no movie available online , i would never pay for porn, i do not earn money with (pirated)software. I pay all the bills,taxes,...

Why can't I get some entertainment for free instead watching TV, after hard work ?

[DKT27]

Piracy is categorically and morally wrong, period. As for Dr. Naik's claims that it can be used for "educational" purposes. I used to be support piracy until I came to know of a friend who's life's work was just destroyed by piracy. He worked on a interactive software to help out the students, and put in a lot of his time and money on the project. Initially it was successful, so much so that even the schools recommended it to the students and he started to make a good living out of it. But then after a few months, he effectively had to shut down his project. His software is pretty popular, but he's no longer working on it because piracy obliterated his sales. Not all "small" software want popularity, I'd argue that they rather the most protection against piracy. Unfortunately for my friend he's still without a job, he just does whatever work to earn living.

There are few legitimate cases, though none of the mentioned above reflects such legitimate cases. There are legitimate (though arguable) defences of piracy, but lets be honest, how many of the pirates actually do it for legitimate reasons rather than just being cheap and lazy? People deserve payment for their time, effort and talent, and pirates deliberately deprive them of such deserved payment.

Not all artists or software authors are money-grubbing miser – they're far, far from that - and for some it is the only source of income to provide for a roof over their head and food on their table. I'll ask you this, is not a man entitled to the sweat of his brow?

While your views are correct, it's not exactly how it looks.

Thing is, majority of piracy is there for big time movies and music, something that not only makes massive profits, but also opens up others into believing that why pay for it when they are overcharging?

Then comes the software point which you are saying. I personally believe it's all about business model. Some softwares earn by bundling toolbars. Some softwares earn by marketing themselves. Some softwares earn by asking for donation. Lot of open source developers do well, as they have understood the business model well and have adjusted to.

Then comes the pirating ethics. People buy it after trying what they like. There are lots of pirates out there who are massive buyers.

Another business model out there is giveaways and sale offers. Good but unknown softwares get very famous when they put up a giveaway or a sale and then their sales and income increases.

Take a look as Steam sale model, see how many people buy the games when they are on sale. Not just famous studios' games, but indie games too. It's profit - profit for all three, the developers, Valve and the customers themselves.

Then take a look at WinRAR, one of the most non-purchased software in the history of computers. The reason I say non-purchased is that no one buys it, because it is said to be working even when the trial days are over. Nor do I see the developer fighting keygens in it's every release. The reason is simple, it's famous, it makes sufficient money, it knows that a lot of credit of it getting famous is because of the scene, and, it keep improving and getting better, offering the software that is good on just any computer.

Then there's availability and ability to purchase. Lot of people like me, have no credit card access. We can't buy it even if the developer offered it for $0.01, because we have no means to buy it. Just a month or two ago I got my hands on the debit card of my sister (with her approval of course), and was really happy that I can buy something online. I went to Steam, added money to the wallet, entered the details, and it rejected the debit card. Turns out, my country has a strict policy, where the debit card has to go through certain checks before it is allowed to make a purchase, and thanks to bugs in that policy, it is impossible to buy anything online from debit card. And getting hands on the credit card is very hard here, so it's out of question. So what can I do? All I have is option of piracy.

Having said, we at nsane always want people to buy stuff. Take a look at Windows Firewall Control, people were angry at us when we removed it's fix from the frontpage after the developer's request. No one saw or remembered that we want everyone to support the developers and the developer is offering his software for very cheap.

Main point is: If you like it, and can afford it, support the makers and buy it.

[mazigh]

While there are always variations to the rule, Christianity, the world’s largest religion, declares that followers may not steal. Islam, the second largest religion, says that stealing is ‘haraam’ – forbidden by God.

Copy has nothing to do with the word "Stealing"!!, Stealing makes the original owner not owner of the object anymore, while copy is sharing what you have or enjoy while still owning the the object or the thing, So...Copy is not a thief! and if they want to protect their business they have to disable copy feature or invent something new :D

[Tweety.Abd]

While there are always variations to the rule, Christianity, the world’s largest religion, declares that followers may not steal. Islam, the second largest religion, says that stealing is ‘haraam’ – forbidden by God.

Copy has nothing to do with the word "Stealing"!!, Stealing makes the original owner not owner of the object anymore, while copy is sharing what you have or enjoy while still owning the the object or the thing, So...Copy is not a thief! and if they want to protect their business they have to disable copy feature or invent something new :D

Copy like theft, deprives the owner of his right to payment. The argument that piracy is not a theft and hence should be somehow be legal or even more so 'moral', really grinds my gears. It has the same consequences. There are lots of small developers who create softwares for niche and profitable markets, but their profits are destroyed by piracy (aka "sharing"). Specially by those who try to justify it by one means or the other.

[bgood]

right's or privillages ?

use of internet

intellectual property? huh?

ya pays yer money & takes yer chanceZ

g'day

[MidnightDistortions]

Piracy is a tricky thing. From a business/legal standpoint it's wrong. From a Christian point of view it's wrong. You haven't stolen anything. Nothing was lost. That's piracy. If your growing fruits and vegetables in your garden is that considered piracy as well? I think we've reached a breaking point where people are getting money from creating sounds out of instruments, but the large chunk goes to the people who put the music out there. You have plants that grow food that you can eat yet we process the heck out of it ship it off across seas and sell it for $2.99 a pound (depending upon what it is) at places where employees are treated like robots.

So we got intellectual property where record and motion picture companies are selling the creators work and only getting paid a portion of it. And they expect to get money even when the fans are struggling to pay rent. In a perfect world they would get the money they want but just like anything, there is just no easy money these days.

[mazigh]

While there are always variations to the rule, Christianity, the world’s largest religion, declares that followers may not steal. Islam, the second largest religion, says that stealing is ‘haraam’ – forbidden by God.

Copy has nothing to do with the word "Stealing"!!, Stealing makes the original owner not owner of the object anymore, while copy is sharing what you have or enjoy while still owning the the object or the thing, So...Copy is not a thief! and if they want to protect their business they have to disable copy feature or invent something new :D

Copy like theft, deprives the owner of his right to payment. The argument that piracy is not a theft and hence should be somehow be legal or even more so 'moral', really grinds my gears. It has the same consequences. There are lots of small developers who create softwares for niche and profitable markets, but their profits are destroyed by piracy (aka "sharing"). Specially by those who try to justify it by one means or the other.

Internet is based on copy function, so when you sell a copy-able thing to someone you can't force him to not copy it!! developers or producers have to invent something that gonna protect their rights as it should not forcing people to not doing a technological right on their devices by jail threats and others

[Tweety.Abd]

While your views are correct, it's not exactly how it looks.

Thing is, majority of piracy is there for big time movies and music, something that not only makes massive profits, but also opens up others into believing that why pay for it when they are overcharging?

While I agree with you, but only a limited context. I agree that most of the piracy is for those who make massive profits. I strongly disagree with the latter part of your statement. Most of the major software companies offer trial versions (though limited in certain cases) of their software for the consumer to judge whether its worth the money or not. This is even true for the songs, you can listen to whole songs on YouTube or snippets of the song on iTunes or Amazon, etc. I've already talked about it in the other thread related to piracy. Is there any other situation in which the argument "I think the product is overpriced, so I stole it" is valid? As consumers, it is not our responsibility or privilege to dictate the price of a product; rather, we must weigh the price and the value that item has to us, and determine whether it is a worthy purchase. If the price outweighs the value, we as rational consumers will not spend a dime on it. If enough people come to the same conclusion, the item's producer will either lower the price, increase the value or go out of business. But theft, or perhaps more accurately piracy - is not an ethical option.

Then comes the software point which you are saying. I personally believe it's all about business model. Some softwares earn by bundling toolbars. Some softwares earn by marketing themselves. Some softwares earn by asking for donation. Lot of open source developers do well, as they have understood the business model well and have adjusted to.

There are so many aspects to this issue, other than the business model - it is mind-boggling. Some software authors by nature of their applications or quality refuse to bundle toolbars which may cause inconvenience to the consumers - one way or the other. And to be kept alive by asking for donations, when you program apps/create stuff, etc. is humiliating - should never happen. As the argument that people buy it after trying it - that's only restricted to those software, games, etc. where there are no demo or trial versions to test out the product. As for those which offer trial versions of their products, there's no reason to pirate the product. I do acknowledge that certain software authors greatly restrict their trial versions and others don't have any. In such cases, I'd it may be permitted to use the pirated version, but ONLY as a last resort and to try out the application and it MUST conclude in either purchase of the software or uninstallation of it.

Then comes the pirating ethics. People buy it after trying what they like. There are lots of pirates out there who are massive buyers.

There are all sorts of arguments like this, some more reasoned than others. Most are simply juvenile, and are backed up by a disclaimer that is supposed to make the speaker seem more legitimate: “Yeah, I download music, but I also go to a lot of concerts and buy merchandise and stuff. So, it’s like I support the bands anyway, even if I don't buy their CDs.”

Another business model out there is giveaways and sale offers. Good but unknown softwares get very famous when they put up a giveaway or a sale and then their sales and income increases.

Its a good practice, to consolidate your position in the market but it doesn't help much in mitigating piracy. Some consumers are very unreasonable and will not pay $0.99 for a song.

Take a look as Steam sale model, see how many people buy the games when they are on sale. Not just famous studios' games, but indie games too. It's profit - profit for all three, the developers, Valve and the customers themselves.

Again this is only applicable for limited items that are pirated. Maybe it helps the gaming studios cut short the piracy of their games, but its not that helpful for small software developers, or indie artists. Also the 'sale model' for games is different than that of software, music and movies. Besides, sales offers are only possible for certain limited time period.

Then take a look at WinRAR, one of the most non-purchased software in the history of computers. The reason I say non-purchased is that no one buys it, because it is said to be working even when the trial days are over. Nor do I see the developer fighting keygens in it's every release. The reason is simple, it's famous, it makes sufficient money, it knows that a lot of credit of it getting famous is because of the scene, and, it keep improving and getting better, offering the software that is good on just any computer.

Then there's availability and ability to purchase. Lot of people like me, have no credit card access. We can't buy it even if the developer offered it for $0.01, because we have no means to buy it. Just a month or two ago I got my hands on the debit card of my sister (with her approval of course), and was really happy that I can buy something online. I went to Steam, added money to the wallet, entered the details, and it rejected the debit card. Turns out, my country has a strict policy, where the debit card has to go through certain checks before it is allowed to make a purchase, and thanks to bugs in that policy, it is impossible to buy anything online from debit card. And getting hands on the credit card is very hard here, so it's out of question. So what can I do? All I have is option of piracy.

Not all softwares are similar to WinRAR or are fortunate to enjoy such privilege. As I've noted in my above case, there are lots of developers who target small niche markets, and they were pirated so much that they had to abandon their projects even after investing hundreds of hours of time and other resources. For some, their software is the only source of income and sadly popularity does not help to feed themselves or their family. Popularity means nothing if you're not even earning enough to cover up your costs let alone earn a profit or make a decent living out of it.

But you're right on a few things here. We ought to consider the people who do not have access to credit cards, or people from poor countries, where you basically try to have money for food. You cannot ask these guys to buy, its very unreasonable. But somehow, they should still help the developer. Bug reports, contribute in their forums, in their "idea bank", assist other users, advertise the product they like on their social media or by recommending it to their friends (to buy if possible) and so on. Even all this isn't enough though. We only hear the stories of success, the guys that art in top 20. But how many thousands below failed, after huge investments of time/money? Sure, some created bad programs, but some were just pirated to oblivion, and that was it. We live in a very sad situation, where some creators are willing to give their stuff away for free, only to get recognition. This (I believe) should never happen. Time is a very finite resource. Loss of time should ALWAYS be rewarded, financially or whatever agreed upon way.

In the end, it's not the sharing that is guilty of anything. Sharing is fine, even commendable. The financial system, however is not. People should share every little thing they choose to, it improves our cultural development. But with food costing money, and being (yet) unable to "copy" the food, things just go badly and the devs have no other alternatives. Get rid of money, get rid of intermediary rich boys (the types that market stuff that is not theirs, or earn because they have investment power) and problem will be solved. We don't need the intermediaries that create nothing useful and their "talents", i.e., making money off their money and contracting others to do the dirty work for them, just because they can.

Those who don't believe that piracy poses any real or serious problem, they've gotta be kidding. How could you think it's not "real". It is the same old: robot takes men's work, men remains without food principle. This time the internet and sharing puts out of business countless people. As for piracy, it is pretty simple: you have money, you buy. You don't, you steal. I don't want anyone to have a guilty conscience but this is how it see it. Now, it all depends on what you buy and how much money do you actually have. For instance, to buy Adobe's CS at their US$3k price, it is exaggerated for a normal home user. So piracy of such an expensive product is well, excusable, because the company is rich and we really don't need to make it even richer by getting ourselves poor in the process. Even so, one ought to look for more affordable versions, or alternatives instead of pirating outright. But smaller stuff from devs you like and enjoy should be bought - if you have enough money for food, clothing, housing...

[calguyhunk]

... it is impossible to buy anything online from debit card. so it's out of question....

:o My friends and colleagues use their credit/debit cards on Myntra.com etc. all the time! I've personally used both debit and credit cards multiple times on Makemytrip.com, as have everybody I know and their Aunties LOL! Never faced any issues. :dunno:

And getting hands on the credit card is very hard here,...

You're just 19. You wouldn't know. Getting a credit card is easier than getting a SIM card these days :tehe:

The banks keep calling you to the point of utter disgust to give you a new credit card for free even though I'm registered with the NDNCR (National Do Not Call Registry). But they are apparently excluded, 'cuz I bank with them 'em. All they want to do is give you a new Credit card with 0% interest! I actually received one such call to give me a 50K personal loan earlier today LOL! :lol:

Add to that calls for all sorts of investments, health/life/homeowners'/automotive insurance - and that forms 99% of all telemarketing calls I receive - each more annoying than the other :angry:

All you need to get one is a valid ID (Voter's ID/Passport etc.). You'll get your card and the PIN by registered mail within a week or two separately. If you don't use it, you don't pay a dime to the bank. Even if you do use it, make sure that you pay back within 45 days so that you don't have to pay a dime in interest :dance:

If you're regular with your payments and do not default, they'll upgrade your gold/silver to platinum without even bothering to ask :( So yeah! getting a card is easy as apple pie :dribble:

[DKT27]

... it is impossible to buy anything online from debit card. so it's out of question....

:o My friends and colleagues use their credit/debit cards on Myntra.com etc. all the time! I've personally used both debit and credit cards multiple times on Makemytrip.com, as have everybody I know and their Aunties LOL! Never faced any issues. :dunno:

And getting hands on the credit card is very hard here,...

You're just 19. You wouldn't know. Getting a credit card is easier than getting a SIM card these days :tehe:

The banks keep calling you to the point of utter disgust to give you a new credit card for free even though I'm registered with the NDNCR (National Do Not Call Registry). But they are apparently excluded, 'cuz I bank with them 'em. All they want to do is give you a new Credit card with 0% interest! I actually received one such call to give me a 50K personal loan earlier today LOL! :lol:

Add to that calls for all sorts of investments, health/life/homeowners'/automotive insurance - and that forms 99% of all telemarketing calls I receive - each more annoying than the other :angry:

All you need to get one is a valid ID (Voter's ID/Passport etc.). You'll get your card and the PIN by registered mail within a week or two separately. If you don't use it, you don't pay a dime to the bank. Even if you do use it, make sure that you pay back within 45 days so that you don't have to pay a dime in interest :dance:

If you're regular with your payments and do not default, they'll upgrade your gold/silver to platinum without even bothering to ask :( So yeah! getting a card is easy as apple pie :dribble:

I'm not talking about Indian sites, I'm talking about foreign sites. Read this to understand what I'm saying.

As for credit card. Well, (very) recently, when I made an SBI account, I was expecting that getting an credit card is as easy as getting a debit card - I thought a tick mark on the new account form is all that's required. However, to my disappointment, I found no credit card info on the form. Made an account and asked the bank guys. They told me to call a guy. I believe they said that the guy will come to my house, ask me for my general expenses, take my documents, fill other queries and decide which card is best for me. Then it will take about a month or two to get the card. And of course, going to the bank every time (well, I don't think I'm going to buy a lot, so everytime is the correct word) I made a purchase is no fun. I want credit card to be as easy to get as debit card.

Just two days ago I got my first debit card. Was quite happy until I read that I need to withdraw money from the ATM atleast once for me to activate my debit card. Here's the deal though. I'm yet to get my PIN (have to go to the bank for that :P ) number. Then I for one have never ever withdrew cash from an ATM, so have no idea how to it (the guide that came with the card does help, but no practical experience). And most important, I don't think I have enough money in my account (at the moment) to think about withdrawing some. :P

About you saying about credit card offers, I always consider them spam and scam, personally never trust this marketeers or agents.

[calguyhunk]

I'm not talking about Indian sites, I'm talking about foreign sites. Read this ...

Damn! Never tried any financial transaction on a foreign site so didn't really know that! :tehe:

But then again, I don't use my debit cards that much anyways apart from for cash withdrawals. Credit cards are safer if you ask me. Gets stolen or something - you can immediately stop payment unlike debit cards, where the money is actually deducted from your account the moment a transaction is made. :(

BTW, congratulations on getting your own card :rockon:

[DKT27]

I'm not talking about Indian sites, I'm talking about foreign sites. Read this ...

Damn! Never tried any financial transaction on a foreign site so didn't really know that! :tehe:

But then again, I don't use my debit cards that much anyways apart from for cash withdrawals. Credit cards are safer if you ask me. Gets stolen or something - you can immediately stop payment unlike debit cards, where the money is actually deducted from your account the moment a transaction is made. :(

BTW, congratulations on getting your own card :rockon:

I see.

Well, I've joined Paypal now. Won't need to worry about cards then. However, Paypal goes through a lots and lots of checks before it starts working properly.

Thanks. :)