Sony's 'No-Sue' PlayStation Network Clause is Anti-Consumer

[nsane.forums]

Sony attempts to cover its based by issuing a requirement that consumers forego legal rights if they want to keep using its service.

File this under "awfully crass of them": Sony's legal team thinks it can forestall future class action lawsuits (and legal action in general) by forcing users to agree not to sue Sony if they want to continue using their PlayStation 3 game consoles online. It's pretty simple, really. For those who've never owned a PS3, let's review: In order to use Sony's PlayStation Network online service, you have to check "I agree" after reading a wall of legalese about what you can and can't do thereafter. Each time Sony issues an update to the PS3—and whether it's relevant to the online component or not—you have to accept those often revised terms and conditions again. Fail to do so and you nerf your PS3.

And now, in the wake of Sony's catastrophic PSN security failure last April-May, the company's legal team seems to think the best way forward involves forcing consumers to agree that if they have a "dispute" with Sony (where the word dispute "is to be given the broadest possible meaning that will be enforced"), they agree to work it out with Sony without legal recourse.

From Section 15 of the new terms and conditions:

If you have a Dispute with any Sony Entity or any of a Sony Entity's officers, directors, employees and agents that cannot be resolved through negotiation within the time frame described in the "Notice of Dispute" clause below. Other than those matters listed in the Exclusions from Arbitration clause, you and the Sony Entity that you have a Dispute with agree to seek resolution of the Dispute only through arbitration of that Dispute in accordance with the terms of this Section 15, and not litigate any Dispute in court. Arbitration means that the Dispute will be resolved by a neutral arbitrator instead of in a court by a judge or jury.

Note that dispute, according to Sony's lawyers, "means any dispute, claim, or controversy between you and any Sony Entity regarding any Sony Online Services or the use of any devices sold by a Sony Entity to access Sony Online Services, whether based in contract, statute, regulation, ordinance, tort (including, but not limited to, fraud, misrepresentation, fraudulent inducement, or negligence)."

Oh, there's a way out of jail—sort of. If, within 30 days of accepting the latest terms and conditions, you send a snail mail letter saying, in so many words: "Thanks but no thanks, Sony."

Either way, this is pretty low, and you'd have to be a fairly dyed-in-the-wool Sony devotee (or just another corporate apologist) to think this reasonable, ordinary, and acceptable. Reasonable would be allowing you to opt out of "Section 15" online, not by typing up a letter and mailing to Sony Legal in California. The latter's obviously, cynically intended to deter anyone from bothering. Sony hopes you'll just click "I accept" and get on with whatever you're playing, and in the event they do something—anything, frankly—that's worthy of "dispute," if it can't be worked out through "arbitration," that's just too bad for you.

I haven't pulled down the update yet. I don't know if I will, though I'm still not sure this attempt to gag tens of millions would even stand up in court. Yes, Sony has a right like any service provider to dictate the terms of its services, but this isn't a question of how you use the PlayStation Network, it's a brazen attempt to deprive consumers of their only real alternative, should Sony behave badly, to simply quitting the service outright.

Yes, you could always just quit Sony...like that'll happen. Over 77 million PSN members worldwide, each with hundreds (perhaps even thousands) of dollars invested in the PlayStation 3? Don't bet on the quitting strategy as a means of communicating consumer ire upstream...and that, frankly, is exactly what Sony's counting on.

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[CODYQX4]

Anyone that even thinks this is OK needs to be taken out of the gene pool, unfortunately we're forced to take this bullshit regardless because nobody can stop it, and it will only encourage more businesses to do the same, where there is no company that doesn't operate like this (notice that when one phone company raises rates or kills the unlimited data plan, the rest follow suit within a month or two. The second ATT killed Unlimited Data, Verizon did).

These days, the only difference between companies and governments is that governments at least pretend you have rights (and screw you over when it matters), whereas corporations proudly show they are tyrants.

Sony will get away with it because people bought their piece of shit PS3's to play online, and now you are forced to bend over or your device is worthless.

[HX1]

No just quit using their services.. There are idiots who will not even be informed of this change and will continue to sell out in this manner because they like to play games or buy their products... There are many more who will because they don't honestly believe they will ever need to do so... and then of course you have pompous.. who will sit and say their products are SO good that people will sell their soul and legal rights, and chop off an arm to keep them.. WHILST... opening themselves up to being screwed freely without any legal responsibility to those individuals involved..

Everyone ignores these issues and the laws about how companies and entities operate within borders are too loose.. as well.. This is why we stand around like a bunch of idiots when the bottom drops out of the world economy and we can't afford a loaf of bread to feed our children or give them an education.. I mean if I lived off of stupid, fatigued people who made poor decisions and compulsive ones at that... or wanted more of it; I am sure I would facilitate more of it.. and of course keep my hand out to everyone who was willing to donate to THAT cause.. wouldn't you? How else would sitting back and doing very little to be extremely rich or financially secure.. actually work... I wonder how many different angles in how many different fields this has been worked on? I wonder if that dream really is the only thing left....

It's disgusting... YET every single day there is something being allowed to go on unchecked.. unbalanced.. and blind to everything else.. while people campaign blindly and are told the only people that would have that interest are the ones destroying it while we make the same redundant mistakes we ave for the past 50 year or so... People who claim they work for what they have yet are blind to ever putting anything into it to facilitate a future.. Stupid little heads on a stick that do what they are told for those people and entities or lose their job.. and go homeless... No they want to hold on to it for the very reasons of the fact of what this creates on a grand scale... idiocy feeding idiocy feeding idiocy.. They have no real business sense or clue as they don't have an idea about why... They don't care about how it works.. all they want are results and a life they can look around and say its okay to do what I do because .. Look at all the good I have because of it.. Look at what it provides.. and how much 'water rolls off my back'...

Its one thing to say okay well we didn't hack anything or give out information.. Its another to say we will not be held responsible when we are negligent..

[PurplebeanZ]

argh Sony words fail me :frusty:

[CODYQX4]

No just quit using their services.. There are idiots who will not even be informed of this change and will continue to sell out in this manner because they like to play games or buy their products... There are many more who will because they don't honestly believe they will ever need to do so... and then of course you have pompous.. who will sit and say their products are SO good that people will sell their soul and legal rights, and chop off an arm to keep them.. WHILST... opening themselves up to being screwed freely without any legal responsibility to those individuals involved..

Everyone ignores these issues and the laws about how companies and entities operate within borders are too loose.. as well.. This is why we stand around like a bunch of idiots when the bottom drops out of the world economy and we can't afford a loaf of bread to feed our children or give them an education.. I mean if I lived off of stupid, fatigued people who made poor decisions and compulsive ones at that... or wanted more of it; I am sure I would facilitate more of it.. and of course keep my hand out to everyone who was willing to donate to THAT cause.. wouldn't you? How else would sitting back and doing very little to be extremely rich or financially secure.. actually work... I wonder how many different angles in how many different fields this has been worked on? I wonder if that dream really is the only thing left....

It's disgusting... YET every single day there is something being allowed to go on unchecked.. unbalanced.. and blind to everything else.. while people campaign blindly and are told the only people that would have that interest are the ones destroying it while we make the same redundant mistakes we ave for the past 50 year or so... People who claim they work for what they have yet are blind to ever putting anything into it to facilitate a future.. Stupid little heads on a stick that do what they are told for those people and entities or lose their job.. and go homeless... No they want to hold on to it for the very reasons of the fact of what this creates on a grand scale... idiocy feeding idiocy feeding idiocy.. They have no real business sense or clue as they don't have an idea about why... They don't care about how it works.. all they want are results and a life they can look around and say its okay to do what I do because .. Look at all the good I have because of it.. Look at what it provides.. and how much 'water rolls off my back'...

Its one thing to say okay well we didn't hack anything or give out information.. Its another to say we will not be held responsible when we are negligent..

Exactly. Things aren't going to change because for everyone that has the power to change things, most of them benefit from the way things are now. Even the "success" that I want myself to have puts me in that kind of position. If I ever start a new business, I'd lose more trying to do the right thing than cheating on taxes, and screwing the consumer. I mentioned that eventually every one else does it because everyone else does. That applies both ways. Companies will lie cheat and steal because they need to compete with their competitors, who are lying cheating scum, and people will accept this because their friends accepted it and are on PSN. Some people think you can elect a senator and change things, but they are second on the list who benefit from the totally screwed up state things are in now.

Another thing to think about, they say the world economy is screwed up, but money doesn't disappear. Someone always benefits. Where 99% of people are screwed, the president takes vacations and the CEOs and some companies are making record profits. The great depression probably churned out more millionaires than any other time. The economy isn't screwed, just all money concentrated into the hands of the greedy scum who gained it by layoffs, credit scams, government bribery, etc. The economy will rebound once those people feel like handing over some of that cash they stole from us, and they're too busy taking tax funded "bailout". I wouldn't be surprised if the banks screwed up the economy on purpose. You get insurance to pay for foreclosure and get to keep the house. They are flooded in the market today but hold on to them when the population doubles. All the money being made today is being made with corrupt tactics.

[shought]

If I'm not mistaken (and I'd hate to be) this isn't legal. You can't require in your terms of service (or user agreement), which is to be within the boundaries of state legislation, that users will not make use of the provisions which state legislation supplies. So if you 'break' the user agreement (and sue Sony) they will not be able to sue you for it, because their user agreement was not within the boundaries of state legislation.

Would probably differ from nation to nation, but where I live I'm sure this applies and I would be surprised if the same wasn't the case in many other countries.

[Polgaso]

On September 15th, PlayStation users found a little update that informed users about a new location where their funds would be stored, and it also explained that users would be required to sign a new terms of use agreement explaining that Sony is blocking people from carrying out class action lawsuits against the them. reelection next year. And lastly, Alyona responds to a viewer who had something to say about her interview with Ana Kasparian of The Young Turks from last week.

[marke68]

Well I'm happy to say that since Sony installed those lovely rootkits tucked away on retail cd's I've never purchased a Sony product since and have no intention of changing that,this latest insult simply reinforces my hatred for all things Sony.

Do they enjoy losing customers or are they a bit sadistic.