AMD Radeon vs Nvidia

[DKT27]

I think it supports PWM, as per the website, it does. :)

This is how my pins look. I think it will do just fine. :D

Please ignore my yellow marking on that pic. Thought that fanexpert (the one that speeds up or slows down the fan) wouldn't work in chassis 1. :P

[toyo]

Both fans must support PWM if you want them to adjust RPM in real time. Otherwise one will stay at constant RPM, not that would be very bad.

Was reffering to the push-pins of the heatsink. They're sometimes very vulnerable to multiple reseats. But if one breaks somehow, you can take another from the stock cooler and replace it, I think.

damn, i was expecting to find fanboi rant here, but fortunately u guys are offtopic..

u just reminded me of the Xigmatek S1284 that's been laying on the table along with arctic silver 5 just 'cos i couldn't find any isopropyl alcohol..

i shoulda just ordered articlean, but didn't think straight at the time.. been thinking of maybe just using acetone, might work...?

You read through all this? Boy o' boy...

Actually, we are fanboing around, but the hate is so so deep is masquerading behind nice words and crooked advice that could blow your system in a jiffy...

Acetone works very well. Used it too for the same reason, couldn't find any isopropanol.

[DKT27]

Yes, both the fan do. Infact, both the fans are exactly identical, only one is prepacked, and other I would buy differently. :)

I see. I remember those bloody crap Intel P4 fan's push pin design. I wasn't aware about how to handle it at first, but then got hold of it. And being a technical person, I never made mistakes again. But you know, all the the push pins of that fan was broken but somehow I had managed to put them fine. :P The i5's fan's designed is a 100 times better. Have no problem with it. So I guess similar would be with this one. But thanks for the alert, I'll take care about it. :D

I may use lime liquid and then later that methylated spirit as Leet has recommend, on my CPU's top to clean it, well, shouldn't do any problems I guess. I mean using it on the CPU. I wanna take extensive care before and when doing things. Don't wanna f*ck things up. I've opened and placed CPU back again many times, but never removed or applied the thermal paste before.

[toyo]

Methylated spirit=methanol=methyl alcohol, btw... Still poisonous for your ass as drinking it will probably blind you. If you thankfully have decided that not alcohols are forbidden, better use the recommended one if you can find it (it is a better solvent/cleaner).

Never worked with the i5 platform, but I saw those white pins on the cooler. I truly hope Intel newer platforms are better designed.

[DKT27]

Methylated spirit=methanol=methyl alcohol, btw... Still poisonous for your ass as drinking it will probably blind you. If you thankfully have decided that not alcohols are forbidden, better use the recommended one if you can find it (it is a better solvent/cleaner).

Never worked with the i5 platform, but I saw those white pins on the cooler. I truly hope Intel newer platforms are better designed.

LOL. My father owns a pharmacy, and if it's available in there, then surely I can ask for it. :D Yes my knowledge about types of alcohol is quite limited. But thats how I want it to stay. Nothing is really forbidden here in India anymore. It's something thats my personal preference and ethics. In chemical forms, no problems at all.

ANW, the i5's heatsink is quite small in height and the fan designed is quite better. And push pins are very similar, but not causing any problems.

I forgot calling my engineer today. :doh:

[LeetPirate]

Don't worry about the alcohol dude, lol. You're not drinking it, you are using it as it was intended, to clean something. Most of those uses are for cleaning medical grade equipment or wiping off germs from stuff. You can't drink it anyway, like toyo said. If you drink denatured ethanol there is strong chance you will go blind from it, that's why they denature the ethanol in the first place, to prevent people from stealing it to make drinks. It evaporates quickly so don't leave the bottle open.

[DKT27]

It's the same thing they use to rub the skin when doing blood test right? Well, I guess I'll be having it in the house then.

[LeetPirate]

It's the same thing they use to rub the skin when doing blood test right? Well, I guess I'll be having it in the house then.

Yea, that same thing. If it bothers your house then just sell it in the pharmacy at half price when you're done using it. But nobody in their right minds would even consider drinking that stuff, lol, it's probably the same as having chlorine bleach in your house. ;)

[DKT27]

It's the same thing they use to rub the skin when doing blood test right? Well, I guess I'll be having it in the house then.

Yea, that same thing. If it bothers your house then just sell it in the pharmacy at half price when you're done using it. But nobody in their right minds would even consider drinking that stuff, lol, it's probably the same as having chlorine bleach in your house. ;)

Cmon guys, my parents are from science field. Stop it. :P It's me who isn't aware about the chemical compositions.

[toyo]

Not to worry at all... This type of chemistry is not really common knowledge if you didn't get to study (and like) organic chem. I had to learn this, so meh... it stood with me. And I was joking all the way and teasing, if you must know, I'm (totally) on your side of the fence about this matter ;)

[DKT27]

I know. Friendly teasing and making fun of, are two different things easily visible when respective happens. Nice to hear that. :)

Knowing things inside chemicals is not really my interest, though I like science but on a rather technical side.. ^_^

[NoJuan]

I don't know what these guys are on about but all you need is Isopropyl alcohol (a.k.a. Rubbing Alcohol) available at any Pharmacy or Grocery.

It is commonly used for cleaning Thermal Paste from CPU's and even recommended by most PC Techs and Thermal Paste Manufacturers..

[HATE9X]

ou read through all this? Boy o' boy...

Actually, we are fanboing around, but the hate is so so deep is masquerading behind nice words and crooked advice that could blow your system in a jiffy...

Acetone works very well. Used it too for the same reason, couldn't find any isopropanol.

yeah, well.., i buy whatever is better atm i'm buying, don't care nvidia or ati.. still got my 4850 which is beginning to show it's age (well, not too much)..

thx for the info, glad it works well..! :D i looked all over the place for isopropyl, just gonna use acetone and maybe reseat if i find isopropyl later.. i was worried only cos of AS5, otherwise i wouldn't have cared to have the cpu extra clean.

[toyo]

There's not one single reason in the world to do a reseat if you already cleaned it thoroughly with acetone. I also have a 4850... I agree it still works OK even at 1080p in many games. Actually, if it can do 1080p at 60 fps all maxed out in Dragon Age/Mass Effect II (which has lots of eye-candy)... what else can you say. So I expect it to work OK in MEIII and DA2, pretty much all that I need it to do. CUDA would be nice, though...

Some kinds of shadowing really hurts 4850's performance though, and AA is also a killer if there's smoke/particles somewhere on screen.

[HATE9X]

There's not one single reason in the world to do a reseat if you already cleaned it thoroughly with acetone. I also have a 4850... I agree it still works OK even at 1080p in many games. Actually, if it can do 1080p at 60 fps all maxed out in Dragon Age/Mass Effect II (which has lots of eye-candy)... what else can you say. So I expect it to work OK in MEIII and DA2, pretty much all that I need it to do. CUDA would be nice, though...

Some kinds of shadowing really hurts 4850's performance though, and AA is also a killer if there's smoke/particles somewhere on screen.

well yeah, won't bother if the temps are fine.. and they will be, i know..

gonna be ocing x2 550 be to 3.7 or something (stock 3.1).. unlocked to quadcore as soon as i got it, not a single crash/instability issue in months.. :dance2:

been thinking about a gtx 460 or 470.. or 570.. would like to try out green team this time. think their driver updates are better than ati's atm.

but yeah, haven't been too hurried to replace the 4850, it still got a lot of punch.. i have the 1 gig ver. clocked to 750 gpu, 1096 ram. (used to run it 780/1112.5 [2225 effective], but some games didn't like the higher clocks (iv at least i think) so lowered a bit)

[NoJuan]

I agree, Acetone works very well for cleaning Thermal Paste, you just need to be more careful when using it.

I wouldn't bother reseating either as long as you cleaned it already.

As for Nividia vs ATI / AMD, just read the reviews and pick one that gives the level of performance you want at a price you can afford.

They both make quality chips, I have owned both and never have a problem with either.

[toyo]

Well some are not that lucky... both companies use to mess up the drivers sometimes to the point of rendering full features of the card useless for months (DXVA was broken for HD4850 for more than 1/2 year, Geforce 6600 also had some issues in the past)

Also, if you plan to do something else besides gaming (like using Premiere CS5) than a CUDA enabled card like GTX 285, GTX 460 and up and GTX 500 series will automatically become the one you want. I hate to admit it, but AMD's GPU-compute seem to be going nowhere for now.

[NoJuan]

I agree, CUDA is a very good reason to buy a NVidia Based card.

If you regularly use apps that have CUDA support it makes perfect sense to get a NVidia Card.

I Have an ATI HD3850 in my HTPC and it works very well with DXVA (Currently using 10-12 Drivers).

DXVA was only broken for me in one Driver Release (9-5 Drivers I think it was) and I simply waited one month for new drivers that fixed my issue.

I never experienced any other issues with their Drivers.

I have also had NVidia Cards in past systems and I was always happy with those as well.

But I always did my research and read plenty of reviews before I bought any Video Card, or any other new PC component for that matter.

[DKT27]

I just got my Cooler Master Hyper TX3. Would have got it earlier but my engineer had gone for a vacation. Cost about $31. Didn't get a second fan, wasn't available. It has a rather small thermal paste inside it, probably usable only for installing, or one more time.

I've yet to install it though, my father forgot to bring spirit. And sis refuses to lend some acetone. :P I guess I'll use couple of drops of lime into the cotton swab to clean the CPU and some spirit the same way afterwards. I'm just scared though, nothing happens to my dear i5 while cleaning. :beg:

Also bought a new 2GB RAM, the older one that was fried, Kingston refused to replace it. Good that RAM prices are half ATM.

Back onto the topic, I noticed that overclocking the graphics card also increases it's bandwidth, about 1GB/s and fillrate about 0.5 Gpixel/s. It's nothing, but atleast something. :D And so far I've played many games without any problems whatsoever. Also, looking into GPU-Z, my card does have 2 sensors, one on chip and one elsewhere, so must be the memory one, will look closely towards it. :)

[toyo]

OK, I never mentioned why some substances are better than other.

- they are better solvents, so they took away more of the paste

- the leave very little residue after the cleaning is done. Now this is really important, and I am writing about it because: What the hell is "lime"? I assume it is some citric acid solution with some Vitamin C or something, the yellow bottle things meant to replace lemon juice? Please use chemical grade cleaner, not for alimentary use. And acids can cause corrosion, you most certainly don't want that to happen to the i5. Also, as you do not know exactly what's in the bottle (I hope you didn't meant the fruit juice :) ), you do not know what residue will be left after evaporation. Any residue will affect in a negative way the therm-conductivity of the paste.

VERY IMPORTANT: THERE IS NO RUSH!

Always be patient, please excuse the capitals. It waited weeks. It can wait until you have the isopropanol a few more days/hours.

You can always force your sister into submission, though... :D

May I know what reason Kingston gave you regarding the RAM? I also have Kingston now, and I don't plan on buying any more from them if they don't offer good support.

[DKT27]

I see. Well, I don't think I should trouble my engineer more over the cleaner. How about acetone + spirit or only the either one? Will it do the job?

When I didn't know anything about the thermal paste, I had removed the fan for the first time in my life, I thought what the hell metallic thingy is there on the CPU, is the fan's heatsink melted? :P . I removed the thermal paste with rubbing a paper, of course I didn't know anything about it and my CPU kept shutting down due to overheating, and 2 days later I had to send it to my engineer to fix it. At that time I didn't fear removing the thermal paste because I was not dealing with any liquid. Yes, I'm scared because of dealing with a liquid, I know it wont cause any problems, but fear that it may go into the CPU, I know I'm the right man to do it, just fear a little.

About Kingston, when I bought 2GB X 2 RAM. I tested the RAMs with memtest86+ and found a error in one of them. Sent it, caused a month or two to get a replacement, and yes they did, sent me made in taiwan model instead of china (but exactly same model). Now, when I was cleaning my PC about a month ago, I also removed the RAMs and after putting everything back together, my PC didn't boot. I thought something was wrong, after many tries, I took a closer look at the RAM, and my older one, the one that wasn't replaced, had two of it's golden area turned black, so I know it was my mistake some way or the other maybe wet hands or rubber residue in the RAM, but can't really say that I'm sure that it was my mistake. Sent it to my engineer, Kingston sent back saying that it cannot be replaced or repaired. Didn't get more info on it. I'm a bit broken because of this indecent, one of the reasons I'm fearing to clean the thermal paste. I've been opening my PC from last 6 years, nothing like this happened to me.

BTW, seeing at one of the pics when googled, the fan should be facing towards the DVD drive/HDD so that it pushes the air towards the rear fan, is that right?

Also, forgot to mention, this fan was already fitted when arrived, also the connecting the fan with heatsink has changed, no pins, just easy metal bar and screw with rubber pad on it. So I don't have to fit the fan to the heatsink myself. :)

[LeetPirate]

Yea man don't use fruit juice, although the main ingredient in professional grade Arcticlean is D-Limonene and Methyl Esters of soyabean oil, it does smell like oranges. So technically it's not the lime juice you need but the rind from the skin. That's just the TIM remover, then you have to use the Arcticlean surface purifier to clean out any residue of the first solution.

It costs money though so you might as well use methylated spirit since that is closest thing to 100% evaporation with the least residue and cheapest in any pharmacy. Use the medical grade one that is found in pharmacies etc.

Rubbing alcohol and Isopropyl solutions are typically mixed with water and they don't evaporate as fast. I also will advise you to avoid acetone due to it's reports of toxicity and unstable nature, plus it will cost more money and harder to find so if you go out of your way to buy this then you might as well buy Arcticlean professional TIM remover.

Also if the thermal paste you got only lasts for 2 applications then you are probably using too much. But I also know that heatsink has some grooves to fill so it may take more but still you should get atleast 5 uses from the tiny tube. Orient the fan to blow air either to the back of the case or top if you want your power supply to extract the air instead of a rear case fan. No need for the second fan, the Intel i-series is very power efficient. Also remember the chip is in the centre of the metal cap so you really just need a blob of paste in the middle.

On another note, I already told you my reasons for not using Kingston and you have the same problem, their inconsistency in products. You know what Kingston does, they load up 2x the regular amount of ram chips on a module and raise the voltage to force them to work properly. So what you really get is cheaper grade chips that are forced to work hard so there is little room for any overclocking. Also more chips = greater sync problems so this can result in errors and failure to operate in dual channel mode. I know you told me your reason was due to availability in your area so you didn't really have a choice in the brand. There are other brands that produce higher quality ram and people don't know it because they think the greater marketed brand name is superior. I paid 65USD for 2x2GB A-Data gaming series ddr3 that runs at 1600Mhz and can hit 2000Mhz easy, even their website says so and you know what, the voltage is 1.55 for 1600Mhz speed. Compare that to Kingston and you will see they require higher voltages for those speeds.

I also buy Mushkin because they are all hand tested and the modules are built for high performance, only thing is Mushkin costs a bit more money but they have some of the best warranty you could ask for. Given your geographical location the Mushkin warranty may not be of much use to you since you will most likely need to send it back to USA for replacement but the chances of failure to begin with are very very slim. Even in the flash drive department mushkin rules over kingston. For the same price I could get kingston flash drives with a lousy 2MB/s write speed I can also get Mushkin flash drive with about 20MB/s write speed, this is very important because I hate to be waiting hours to copy files to my flash drive.

Those 2 burns you have are because there was current in the ram slots when you removed them or inserted them slanted so pins crossed and created a short circuit. If you have a good power supply then don't unplug the cord when you clean, just turn off the power switch behind the power supply. Reason for this is it leaves the ground wire attached to the grid and your house earth electrode so you won't have to worry about static electricity. Also, you probably clean too often. :P

[DKT27]

OK then, methylated spirit it should be, nothing else needed right? I'll ask my father to bring it tonight.

About the thermal paste, it's just size of a 2/3 of a finger, or even less, isn't that too small? Or normal pastes come in these sizes only? Yes I'll put a medium dot on the center of the CPU, and as per all the videos I saw, the fan should face the DVD drive/RAM and push the air towards the rear.

EDIT: Have no other choice than to buy Kingston, as don't wanna use different brands for dual channel. Know any good global RAM company that I can recommend to others?

Thanks for clarifying. Now I know the reason. Well the wire was probably removed during the cleaning. :(

EDIT (2): Just talked to my father, he said that methylated spirit is banned in India, only docs can get it, and only two bottles of month or something. More confused now. :frusty: OK with normal surgical spirit then?

[toyo]

I think floppy tried to copy/paste your i5 into AMD oblivion.. :)) I think you should apply a respectful ban of 5 seconds or something :P

Isopropanol or acetone ar both to be used in technical/medical concentrations (my acetone bottle is 99.8% purity). At this concentration, they both evaporate in a poof (seconds). Not open flames around or in the room while you work!!!

Methanol is pretty much banned around the world, as there were many cases when it was drank by people not knowing the difference between it and ethanol, and it lead to poisoning, blindness or even death.

The fan should blow the air in the heatsink. The hot air will leave the heatsink and will be expelled by the back fans out of the case.

One more thing: static electricity.

The first thing you want to do is ground yourself to avoid electrostatic discharge. I have a wooden floor so I just walked around bare foot. This helps discharge static electricity from the body. But if you really want to be on the safe side, you can get an anti-static wristband. They're pretty cheap.

[DKT27]

I see. Well I've asked my father to bring the strongest rubbing alcohol he sells. Wonder how much time I'll have to put it on a cotton swab and clean if it gets evaporated so fast. :P

My engineer specifically told me to remove the plug when I install the RAM, he told me he has a diagram or something that says that these type of burns occur when the wire is plugged in. Either way, I'm gonna remove may whole CPU from the table-trolley of my computer to install the fan, so I guess I wont see any problems. I'm gonna use A2 and B2 slots this time instead of A1 and B1, never know if the slot had done anything wrong....