AMD Radeon vs Nvidia

[LeetPirate]

I can vouch for the Arctic Cooling MX series thermal paste, it's the best thermal paste around. I grade it superior to any silver paste because AC MX is non electrically conductive and does not have/need a curing time. It's one of the best things you can do for your computer. I bought the MX-2 several years ago and it still serves me well, they later improved it by 1C and released MX-3 and then by a further 1C and now they have MX-4. Well they don't compare their own products against each other probably because of the minor differences but you could extrapolate from 3rd party reliable benchmarks. Good value for money is the MX-3 because it is like half the price of the MX-4, why pay double for 1C less. I don't think MX-2 is still in stock but if you do find it for super cheap then it is also a good buy.

I also bought the Arcticlean thermal paste cleaners but you don't really need that, you can use lime juice and rubbing alcohol as cheap substitute, no joke. You also don't need to spend plenty, ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler is only around 30US and it's an investment that you can use for many years. Well I'm not sure for AC aftersales support items because I buy Zalman, reason being they release clips and brackets for future cpu sockets that work with the same cooler you have so instead of having to waste 65 bucks on a new cooler you can buy a bracket for 5 bucks when a future cpu socket is released.

Also even though I prefer AMD video cards for all the right reasons, I too am forced to use nvidia for the same reasons as toyo. :(

The cuda acceleration is just necessary right now, I was disappointed that Adobe could be so one sided, it's like they have stocks invested in nvidia, lol.

[DKT27]

Well, I'll see, I've sent my RAM to my engineer ATM, he should get it soon. Will ask him is Arctic Cooling MX series model is available. Well, I've never applied any paste before (by myself), so dunno how I can do it, will have to remove the old one? may get a bit more thicker or something by mistake? Also, I clean my computer almost every 3 months or even less. How long I wont need adding another one?

My stock fan speed is max 2200RPM.

@toyo: I did read somewhere on a news article that Firefox 4 's HA has connection with OpenCL, I'm damn sure it was OpenCL and not anything else, can't seem to find it on google though. :unsure:

[Bizarre™]

@DKT27:

You have to remove the thermal pad (if you use stock HSF) and clean the residue left, then apply the thermal paste on the heat-sink and the processor.

Also in regards to how often you apply thermal paste, you should do it every time you clean your rig. So, I believe 3 months is good enough.

BTW, 2200 RPM is a bit low. You need at least 3000 RPM, especially if you plan to OC.

[DKT27]

I remember my old PC's fan. Used to top 4000RPM. :D My current stock fan came like this.

Not going to overclock it myself. Just till what Intel can go by itself, 3.2GHz. A little help of ASUS Six Engine, can overclock it till 3.3GHz. But, just did half conversion of a video in Xilisoft at 2.66GHz after disabling Turbo boost (via windows, not bios), and it reached 95C. So I do need a good cooler/fan. And ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler is out of my budget. I don't earn here, and asking my father to buy a $30 CPU cooler with a new $65 RAM that has been fried is hard. :P Please suggest a good after market cooler around $20. I've never tried those heatpipe ones, are they hard to mount? Need heatsink with them? I'm also considering to by some sort of HDD cooler. Heard 42C is not the right temp. Just wish it would come cheap.

[toyo]

I don't think you need overclocking on the CPU. Are you doing hard encode work? Than maybe it's worth it, but only maybe. Your CPU is almost as powerful as an i7 920, and that is amazing to consider.

Take my example. I can say I have 2 rigs: one i7 920/12 GB RAM/GTX 285 that I bought with a friend for Premiere when i7 was out. That was my main machine until my friend fried his Phenom and considering we are currently almost broke (all our clients went broke in the past 6 months...) I left the i7 with him. And my old trusty rig, the one I'm on now, a C2D e7200 with a mild overclock to 3,16 GHz, 4 GB RAM and a HD4850.

Guess what... I don't miss the i7 at all. The performance of a lowly Core 2 Duo at 3 GHz is enough even for Premiere, and I don't have CUDA on this machine. It even encodes pretty well. Yeas, it won't do it in 20 secs, it will do it on 3 mins, but I read a web page in that time, so it's OK.

My point is that I can hardly see why would you need to OC your already powerful CPU, that has 2nd gen TurboBoost that's adaptable to the number of threads.

The cooler. I have on my C2D the ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm - same cooler mentioned by LeetPirate, but the 1st revision. While it's better than the Intel stock HSF, it doesn't do such a great job on higher overclocks. For a quad like yours, if you want to push it to 4 GHz, you would need something even better if you want the temps to behave. I wouldn't buy ANY cooler that hasn't a 120 mm fan, and I would have PATIENCE. Stay with stock, save $ by $ until you have like 50-70$ and then research the market for what is available. Do not hurry! You will be sorry later.

Any purchase you plan on, as a man with moderate resources, you need to ask yourself: Do I really need it? Do I really need it now? Refuse to give in to temptations.

The HDD temp. 42 is not very good, and not very bad. It's usual for faster 10.000 rpm drives.

Do you want to lower ALL temps? Open your case. Make a fan blow over the open side. My HDDs have 35-ish Celsius on summer. Now they're 24, but it's -8 outside.

I keep the case open, and vacuum the insides every 2-3 weeks or so. There's some dust, but not much. It's the compromise I have to make to have lower temps. The two 92 mm fans in my case are just not enough.

However, for the i7 I had a big case, with 5 or 6 big fans. So I didn't need to open the case. Actually, I can't remember opening the case ever for the i7...

The thermal compound. If you buy quality paste, then you really don't need to change it often. It's essential to not overdo it.

Note: Changing the default Intel goop with quality paste will drop your temps, but not by much. The old paste needs to be cleaned with HIGH CONCENTRATION Isopropyl alcohol. I never managed to find this, so I always clean with acetone.

I read some about the i5. Seems that no one has a clue about what the safe temps for i5 700 are. Some say 95-100 is when the CPU starts to throttle back. Temps between 70 and 100 are thought to be "safe". What can I say? For my eyes 70 Celsius on a CPU means alarm.

Can you run a test configured for all threads and max memory with this tool? See what temps your i5 goes to.

http://www.ultimate-filez.com/files/IntelBurnTest.zip

I remember from another topic that all of you guys love Asus EPU. Again, I cannot stress enough the additional points of possible failure that app introduces in your system and its futility. Intel's i5 750 is already a work of art. There is no need for additional stuff. This is just my (documented and researched) point of view. Aren't speedstep and C1E enough variation factors... EPU introduces voltage/speed jumps of it's own.

[DKT27]

One of the reasons I was going to buy i7-920 but bought i5-750 instead was that at AnandTech, the results showed that i5 was able to beat i7 in many places, so why pay more $110 only to get a slower processor with HT enabled.

Thinking about it again, $30 is quite manageable. But the problem is, I don't think I can ever find ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm in any store here in India. Well, there seems one dealer in Mumbai as per the website. :think: Can Cooler Master Hyper TX3 be as good as Arctic Cooling Freezer if it's not available?

I am tempted, But with this temperatures, I do need a good cooler. Can't bear to see the processor slowing down in no time. I don't plan to overclock it. Only till 3.3GHz if possible. 120mm may not be needed for that.

Even I keep my case open, but have only one CPU and one rear fan (plus PSU fan and GPU fan).

We Indians, well, most of us, don't keep or use alcohol, so acetone seems the right way to go.

Did the Intel Burn Test, to be honest, before today, I've never ever heard or known about GFlops. Now I know. :D ANW, it started throttling down when it reached about 95 to 98C. It has done this in past, reaches 95 or more and slows down, not less temp than that. Here and here are the burn test results if you want. :)

About EPU, I did see that as per HWMonitor, my CPU Watts usage is at 22W when at 1.2GHz and it increases to 30W when EPU is running. But the reason I want it is that I need my CPU to go down to 1.2GHz when not needed and overclock it to atleast 100MHz more to squeeze out more. So I guess custom overclocking doesn't help me do that. I've stopped using EPU ATM though.

As for ATI, I did OC to 700/850 with temp only increasing by 1-2C with FPS more 1-2 in Furmark after 5 mins. About 73C max, Think that's safe?

[toyo]

I'm 99% positive that you can push the GPU until it reaches 85 Celsius after 15 mins of Furmark stress without ANY fear. But don't push the memory as I fear it will fry itself without any cooling on it.

There are MANY alcohols. The one you can drink and intoxicate yo' ass with it is called ethanol or ethyl(ic) alcohol. The one that I mentioned is a technical substance with some more carbon atoms and is named isopropanol, isopropyl alcohol, or rubbing alcohol and is used for cleaning stuff as it is a very good solvent. Also used medicinally, for sterilization. Not for drinking, as coincidentally it will be metabolized into acetone and you will get poisoned. So it is my belief that you can safely use it, as it's only the ethanol that is let's say... problematic. Acetone is good but it isn't that efficient. Any will do, it's just that isopropanol is preferable if you have a choice. Also, you need technical grade of these substances, meaning very high concentrations, 95%+, better if you find 99%. You will see that the Intel goop is pretty nasty to clean.

So your CPU is throttling back. That should NEVER, EVER happen on a non-overclocked CPU in normal heat conditions. Something is feeding your CPU a lot more voltage than needed or there are some problems with the HSF. Or in BIOS. Someone should REALLY check that out. If the throttle begins at 95-ish, I think you should keep your CPU at 90 Celsius tops. Actually, I hate to say it, but your CPU is the 1st time I hear about this happening on a non OC CPU.

May I ask again: Do you need that overclocking? I'm sure you realize that the i5 is very powerful as it is. Do you render 3d stuff? Encode for hours? If not, overclocking the i5 is hardly justified. If this is about gaming, you already know that the holding back point for your system is the GPU. 100 MHz is nothing...

The cooler you found could be even better than the Freezer, because you can attach a 2nd fan for better cooling. The Freezer comes with MX-4 paste already applied though, and it saves you the money you have to spend for a tube of thermal compound for now. Cooler Master is a recognized company and you can trust their stuff. I'd go with the TX3 if you find it cheap, and some MX-4 paste.

Before applying paste/cleaning CPU/seating new cooler, make sure you do it properly by reading on the web some tutorials on overclocking communities.

If you decide to not use EPU, make sure you uninstall so it won't load voltage regulation drivers and whatnot. If you go this way, I'd recommend uninstalling EVERYTHING from ASUS and thoroughly cleaning the remains. These guys make excellent hardware, but their software is POISON - don't hate me, it's just my opinion. I too buy from them.

If case is open, you don't need rear/front fan that much, these are thought for creating a "air tunnel" inside the case, that passes near the hot-spots and expel the hot air outside. This aerodynamic is compromised with the case open. What you need is a big blower on the whole of your system, the type of fan you use at home when it's hot. It will improve all the temps ;)

One last thing. The 920 vs 750. It depends on what job you need to do. i5 faster in some jobs with 1-2 threads because of the improved Turbo. But 920 is a killer in multithreading. Video encoding and rendering and many professional apps like the 920 more. But i5 700 is a better and more optimized architecture than i7 900, that's obvious. Just that the i5 is a little crippled by Intel's design so they can kill the Phenom II x4 efficiently with something :ph34r:

But better then both is the i7 800 series with HT/new turbo/high speed ;) Too bad they're also damn expensive.

[DKT27]

Thanks for all the info.

I wont OC the GPU more now. :)

Even when turbo boost is disabled, it jumps to 95-98C in 3-4 seconds of Intel Stress Test. Probably because if me cleaning my PC a week ago and the heatsink would have been removed 4-5 times till now off the CPU so the paste may be needed. But I'll like to go for the Cooler first otherwise would be wasting the money on paste. :P I guess they do provide a paste with the pack. Or should I first apply the MX paste and see the results first? But thing again, I remember that it did throttle even when the PC was new.

I need some info from Leetpirate, what he says on that Cooler Master CPU cooler. I've read a review and it seems good. But will only look forward if Leet confirms it. I have the Cooler Master PSU and the case, but always best to be sure. And no I don't have any needs for OC.

I did try Uninstalling it but somehow it's showing installshield ikernel.exe could not be launched. :blink: Also, none of the installed Asus programs are visible in CC uninstall page or in Revo.

[toyo]

After any cooler reseat, it's very advisable to clean and change paste. Turbo is designed so it works in the same max thermal envelope, that's why it disables cores as it pushes the speed up.

There's no mention of any paste bundled with the TX3, so I assume it comes without it. Meaning you need to buy some anyway. I'd buy the MX-4 like a few days a go, if you know what I mean... Don't want to worry you, there's absolutely no need to panic at all, but the CPU should not behave that wildly, and a change of paste and reseating the Intel HSF will give you peace of mind until purchasing the new cooler. Usually the MX-4 will also drop your temps with a few degrees, especially on full load, even with the stock HSF. You'll get a full tube of paste, and you only need to use a drop, so no problems here.

As for EPU and other sticky Asus shizzle... they won't go down without a fight... Installshield has some dependencies. Can you check if your Dcom and RPC services are up and running (Run>services.msc)? If not, launch them and retry uninstalling.

If not in Revo, open the app folder and seek for the Uninstaller exe file. It might need a parameter or two, but first try just a double click.

Don't worry about remains... you'll probably have to clean manually after Asus anyway. jv16 is a old time fan favourite. Best if you uninstall all the Asus, so you can nuke all their reg entries :)

[DKT27]

Nono. It never disables any cores by itself. Just that it has this feature called C-State where sorry, it's doesn't seem C-State related, if the application is using only one or two cores, it allows the 2 or 1 core(s) to speed up till 3.2GHz (25x), the rest will remain at 1.2GHz. But if the soft is utilizing 4 cores, C-State wont apply here, so all the cores will get max 2.8GHz (21x).

It seems that C-State does disable inactive cores.

As per the review I read about TX3:

The package consists of the cooler, a 92 x 92 x 25 mm fan at 800 - 2800 RPM (PWM) plus fan retention clips, push pins for Intel processor sockets and an AMD retention clip. Also some thermal paste is included, which we think is a nice touch.

:)

I was absolutely unaware that the paste just needs a drop to be added. I thought whole syringe will need to be emptied, you know, those pics on computer are not always real in size. :P Now that assures me that I can use MX paste once and see the results before moving forward with the cooler. ^_^ I'll use acetone though. :D

Both those services are running. I googled to see but no avail. :(

[toyo]

There's a whole philosophy about this changing the paste and reseating coolers thing. People tear each other to pieces in some forums about how the paste should be applied, how often etc. I read some tutorials that helped me some time ago when I decided to lap the cooler and the CPU I had then, a 65 nm C2D that I wildly experimented with. I can't seem to find them again, very unusual...

However, all I can tell you is that the MX-3 syringe I bought when it appeared on the market was used numerous times and it's almost full. I think it will last me until they launch MX-6 or something...

Do you have these files mentioned here?

Also: http://consumerdocs.installshield.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=Q110719&sliceId=1

[DKT27]

Just saw some youtube videos. Getting some ideas. :)

One guy covered whole CPU, but on the other side, the pro guy just did a line then pressed the heatsink over it, and then removed it to show how well it spread. Also said that that it should not cover the whole CPU, the lesser it covers, the better it is. OK then will be calling my engineer today. Will tell him to search for MX 2 or 3 or 4 or 5. Whichever is available and cheaper. :D

The M$ link thing wont work in Windows 7, all the layout seems to have changed in the installation DVD. The second link is dead. Will do sfc /scannow if needed.

[toyo]

The line is for dual cores (must be placed so it intersects both of them). For quad stuff you put a drop, and the same spread principle works. I see you're becoming enthusiastic of this entire thing :P We should be ashamed of how we absolutely, totally and completely hijacked the thread :P

[DKT27]

I see. How about a plus (+) if not a line? :P Come to think of it, the main core of the CPU is in the middle and the rest is the golden heads/pins. The guy whom I saw spreading it all over the CPU must be mad. :sneaky:

I'm enthusiastic about everything in tech. Don't like to waste a single day when learning something new (otherwise I may forget it the next day :P ) :D .

About the thread, well, I continued here for a reason, the GPU talk started it all, it's cooling, then it's connection to CPU, then CPU's cooling. :)

[toyo]

If you try to spread it yourself you risk making tiny air bubbles that will negatively affect conductivity. I think you should propose the (+) solution on some forums for the love of seeing them dissolve them into infinite arguments for and against the method :ph34r:

I just realized that Sandy Bridge should be launched in a few weeks... it kinda depresses me.

[LeetPirate]

The Cooler Master Hyper TX3 is loads better than the stock cooler, I actually did lots of research on it because it was 20 bucks for it and the benchmarks for it were pretty impressive. It has only 2 problems, well one is caused by the other. The heatpipes are direct contact with the chip which I thought was a superb idea until I saw a picture of the underside and realised the surface is uneven and there are grooves between the pipes and the contact surface. I gave it the benefit of the doubt and did more research and one of the review sites confirmed that indeed the bottom surface was uneven due to the direct contact heatpipe design. This means the cooler itself is not as efficient as it could be, and the benchmarks showed this.

It works superb at idle temps but at higher loads it could not keep up with the more expensive coolers, nevertheless it blew away the stock coolers by a wide enough margin to make it an excellent buy considering the cheap price. Take a look at the competitive benchmark on guru3d, you can see that at 100% cpu load even though the TX3 can only hold it at 70C, it still beats the intel stock fan by 15C and that is quite an improvement.

Awesome bang for the buck, don't that it isn't the absolute best because alot of those other coolers that beat it are 120mm fan variants. 120mm fan cooler is surely the top of the lot but it is often difficult to mount and it does not fit in smaller cases. 92mm is a good tradeoff between cooling capability and compatibility with cases. I never liked those full atx cases like the cooler master HAF and so on, they take up too much space so I stick with 92mm coolers but I buy pure copper Zalman cooler to make up for the reduced abilities of the smaller fan. I also do not know how sturdy the intel push pin design would be for this heavy heatsink but I didn't see anyone complain about it so I guess it works.

To dissolve the old thermal interface material you could use citric acid, dip a cotton swab in lime juice and rub it on the thermal material and watch it dissolve. You may think I'm insane but even the professional Articlean TIM remover solvent smells like orange juice. You see the citric acid will dissolve all the particles even in the finest molecular grooves that you cannot see. After that is finished you can use any good alcohol to purify the surface. Arcticlean surface purifier can also be used but the cheapest alternative is methylated spirit that you can buy at any pharmacy for cheap, like a dollar. To apply new thermal paste I normally drop a tiny dab in the centre of the cpu and just rest the heatsink on it, the spreading occurs for itself when pressure and heat are applied, the MX series paste is non leaking so it goes on well. The TX3 cooler has some deeper grooves so I'm not sure how to tell you to compensate for that, maybe put a slightly larger dab in the centre.

You don't have to spread the thermal paste manually because the cpu chip itself is under the centre of the cpu metal cap that we see so don't worry if the edges don't get any paste.

[DKT27]

You know Leet. As per a Indian ebay, Cooler Master Hyper TX3 is going to cost me $29. Wonder how much Arctic Cooler Pro will cost. It's not available on any online store. Of course, I never buy online, but get some ideas about it's availability and cost.

At the first view, even I thought the plate is uneven, dunno what Cooler Master guys thought about it. Looking it at the pic, it's still manageable.

And thanks for all the info. :)

@toyo: I'm not worried about Sandy Bridge. I've stopped looking at it. Have a i5, should be statisfied by it. :lol:

[LeetPirate]

@toyo: I'm not worried about Sandy Bridge. I've stopped looking at it. Have a i5, should be statisfied by it. :lol:

Guys don't feel bad about Sandy Bridge. On average the performance gain is small, i-series can easily break down that bridge of sand and hopefully AMD bulldozer will also destroy the bridge of sand. :lol:

Bear in mind Sandy Bridge cannot overclock like i-series due to the integrated clock. Sandy Bridge is more focussed on power savings this rounds.

Clock-for-clock, Sandy Bridge is approximately 10% faster than Lynnfield, and perhaps a few more percent with Turbo enabled. This well supports long term speculation that Sandy Bridge will only bring minor performance improvements, favouring efficiency.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-sandy-bridge-previewed/9697.html

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20101216213619_Intel_Sandy_Bridge_Quad_Core_Comes_First.html

[NoJuan]

I can vouche for the effectiveness of the Cooler Master Hyper N 520 on my i7-870 CPU.

@ Load my temp maxes out at 50 C and Idles at 33 - 36 C.

It's only a few dollars more that the TX3 and has two fans which definitely help keep the CPU cool.

Just be sure to use a High Quality Thermal Paste.

If you can find one locally, you won't be disappointed with this Cooler.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103057

As for Video Cards, I have a Gigabyte HD6850 Overclocked to 875/1100 and it easily plays anything I throw at it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125353

[RadioActive]

The only advantages I see for nVIDIA are PhysX and CUDA. But you can live without the first one and most of us don't need the later anyways.

I recently replaced my old 9600GT with my current 4870 and I very satisfied. I play on 1080p using medium-high settings and haven't ran into any problems running recent games.

In any case, regarding the original topic; I say if you have an AMD system then I suggest with an AMD (ATi) card as well for maximum compatibility. Just my two cents.

[DKT27]

Today my engineer called. Said that Arctic Cooling MX series paste is not available anywhere. :(

I guess I will go directly with Cooler Master Hyper TX3 then, I saw benchmark results and found that it beats Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro by 1°C. :D

Also, as per the benchmark here, it seems that the two fan beats Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus. :o So I guess I will be also ordering Blade Master 92 if it's cheap to have 2 fans.

Just one problem, if I cannot get the second fan, where should this fan be facing towards? As per the pics I saw, it should be facing towards the front of the CPU below the DVD drive. But don't you guys think it should be facing towards the rear fan?

Also, have 500W power, won't it have any problems?

Well, I'll call my engineer tomorrow and ask him to find estimates, then will ask him to buy it. :)

[toyo]

Both cooler fans should blow in the same direction >> towards the rear of the case. Told ya that the two fans feature makes this a very nice choice.

You have a personal engineer. Nice.

Buy another paste so you can have a tube handy anyway, it's important. You're pretty inexperienced with this remove-reseat thing... sometimes not everything goes smoothly. Reserve push-pins are also nice.

[DKT27]

I see. What if the second fan is not available? Should it be like this:

Rear_____________Fan facing towards rear____________heatsink.

Or

Rear_____________heatsink____________Fan facing towards rear.

(only if I manage to get only one fan (pre packed one))

Also, wonder where should I pin the wire of the second fan of the CPU. Here's the pic. Now where the hell my manual has gone. :unsure: ANW, chassis 1, PWR would be the ones empty I guess.

About my engineer, well, he's a devotee and doesn't get time to know what's latest. But does a lot for me. Without any charge. Loves to see my knowledge about it.

Well, I've made this computer myself, I don't see it being too hard to understand, just like to confirm things. :D

EDIT: Totally forgot. 100% sure that cooler master guys provide a tube like paste (not embedded) with the TX3 package. :)

[toyo]

Rear fan---Principal Fan--heatsink--Secondary fan

<<Airflow<<

As for the 2nd, optional fan, you first have to make sure it supports PWM. Some systems support a serialization system where you plug the principal CPU fan in the CPU_FAN and the cable has a slot for plugging another fan into the 1st Principal fan. I hope you understand. That way the controller manages both CPU fans at the same RPM.

[HATE9X]

damn, i was expecting to find fanboi rant here, but fortunately u guys are offtopic.. :P

u just reminded me of the Xigmatek S1284 that's been laying on the table along with arctic silver 5 just 'cos i couldn't find any isopropyl alcohol.. :angry:

i shoulda just ordered articlean, but didn't think straight at the time.. been thinking of maybe just using acetone, might work...?