Debates About Politics

[shought]

Bumping into this thread :P

[Alanon]

Say, how 'bout we get round to discusing politics? Interestingly enough, the political situation in my country is quite heated at the moment... So much so, that there's politics on TV every day... Yet I still have an urge for phillosophical debating... So, people, start posting!

[RadioActive]

Debates About Politics

You sure you wanna open-up that can of worms? <_<

[myidisbb]

Say, how 'bout we get round to discusing politics? Interestingly enough, the political situation in my country is quite heated at the moment... So much so, that there's politics on TV every day... Yet I still have an urge for phillosophical debating... So, people, start posting!

which country would that be?

[Alanon]

That would be Serbia...

[myidisbb]

That would be Serbia...

i think you can give up ever seeing yugoslavia again. clinton screwed serbia by attacking your country. funny how the dmeocrats all forgot about that type of attack when bush attack iraq. oh well. how old was you durign clintons attack?

[Atasas]

sINput := Communisim ;If conflict := true Then Begin Iorncordon.actvate; end;

Very Wise! ^_^

Bumping into this thread :P

? not wise! :fear:

Debates About Politics

You sure you wanna open-up that can of worms? <_<

X2!

and I'll disregard few posts afterwards for that reason on this board :smartass:

[CODYQX4]

I myself have lost all faith in humanity and think anyone ruling will screw up.

Here's something to think about.

If people are inherently good, we would need no laws or government.

If people arern't then they must be inherently bad, and therefore, won't any government lead by people be bad?

[HX1]

I myself have lost all faith in humanity and think anyone ruling will screw up.

Here's something to think about.

If people are inherently good, we would need no laws or government.

If people arern't then they must be inherently bad, and therefore, won't any government lead by people be bad?

I myself have lost all faith in humanity and think anyone ruling will screw up.

Here's something to think about.

If people are inherently good, we would need no laws or government.

If people arern't then they must be inherently bad, and therefore, won't any government lead by people be bad?

First off.. you sound like a Jehovah's Witness.. don't believe in religion in any form or on any level.. God .. Satan none of the above..

Second...I disagree with the text I bolded.. simply for the sake that.. we have as a race.. who has learned to communicate... work together so on and so forth... always needed some way of learning.. from one another and once you hit a certain point.. it is necessary to maintain that.. through various rules and guidelines... So that the many.. and we are talking about generations of billions of people.. who are born .. grow-up and grow old.. could, constantly keep the entire race at one certain place of development.. ( there is only so much you can do ) it could only go so far.. To wish for all of this to be born into our instinct genetically passed from one to the next .. would be ridiculous...

The problem comes into play that in fact some of these people never had to develop ..nor think for themselves and have 0 skills on actually 'figuring' to an acceptable answer.. and do not have the ability to account for the needs of everyone involved.. especially when it grows outside of fathomable reach of simplicity.. and everything including some of the things we do and have learned to do over the years becomes more and more advanced..

Socially and otherwise we have come with psychological connections to what is good and what is bad.. 'People are inherently good....' I say neither.. We are people and animals on the surface just like any other... We created fictitious explanations for bad and good events as they related to how we felt, and what it meant to our physical survival. Some very basic.. some intricately woven... We invent entities to explain things we don't understand.. even going as far as drilling holes in the heads of disease victims to let the demons out.. when all they had was pneumonia.. and the plague...We don't need government but clear information that works.. not as a patch but a permanent clear cut and proven ... We may not need a government to tell us who we can love and what is recognized in their eyes as being the thing to do .. to sell out to the same system which has brought a tremendous amount of shame on our level of development as a race.. especially being that it gets wrapped up in so many untruths.. problems.. lies.. and delusions to explain the events that take place.. along with the deception we get.. from one another.. and seemingly from many directions to control the actions of the animals involved.. Manipulation.... Truthfully there isn't sometimes away to bring people up to speed ..but we have to have a way to not have them continue to do the wrong thing.. so what else is there.. IF we spent all of our time all of the time trying to only do that.. it would be all we did.. and any other objective or skill we have or had would be lost.. I could go on and on.. back and forth about so many things it would be a book..

So the point being .. is the basics are what are at stake.. the rest is meaningless.. we have damned ourselves.. and we do it everyday.. globally... You have people who are trying to change the world.. so in the box.. some out of the box.. yet the machine keeps turning because worldwide its the same.. Then you have all of the individual units.. each single person who is out there trying to change things for themselves and their lives..Their objectives get lost.. and a vulnerability out of the things they want is opened.. We all want to be able to move forward progress .. get smarter.. live life to the fullest and have all sorts of things .. while being as animalistically and instinctively alive as possible.. to be as free and as natural as we can and have everything around us understand it.. and for it to work and for all of the roles to be fulfilled... Instead we recreated a vast hole for a wasteland of that sort to exist... Out of what.. motivation to do something, and do it how someone wants it to be done.. that in the end has become a globally engulfing damnation to the system itself.. because the promises are broken.. the carrot on the end of stick.. was not there after all.. and our existence is completely wasted.. The less fortunate die.. or do something else to obtain.. Rape, steal.. lie, deceive... sell an idea... Those physically incapable sell ideals.. or even the idea of an idea.. None of that seems right at all..

The moral and value system itself is flawed.. It doesn't work.. Some of us are all motivated by different things.. if we all want something better we work.. if what we have is crap we work harder and give more.. Sometimes in hope of a return that never comes.. and then we die.. the problem is that it has stop at some point and you have to be able to get somewhere.. or else you have a collapse.. which will never bring down a machine this big.. that people would have to unlearn something that they have been taught to do since they were born..( I mean take blind racism for example - which again is an idea and an objective of someone to get something done, and/or the delusional to explain something they don't understand ) ..which then again starts the whole cycle.. and the only place they have to look are the ones who haven't been taken in the whole game... all over again.. too widespread.. and nothing works... Even interpersonal interaction is shut down.. because you know.. your not successful and there has to be some reason for it... regardless of what people say.. or claim they believe.. All of it related back to our instincts we have to survive..

We are smart enough to manipulate one another...yet we have to survive... and in all thats done.. even if we were living off the land... There is still a method which has to be worked to get anything out of it we need... I think we are all angry that we aren't the ones who really know what we are doing.. ( yet some of these people would just flake and die .. if they had to be us ) I think we are all angry that we don't all have a way to really be happy or survive.. and that everyone on this planet is being squeezed to hard and the value based on our efforts set too low for those things which we do everyday.. Each thing is simply something we do.. a product we produce... usually with most things some who have the experience it is easier for.. other have to work harder at it.. The we use moral values as a measurement to actually abuse ourselves mentally into submission for one thing or the other.. I mean you begin to think that if we actually were in control we would so be S&M... but from a twisted true pain side of the deal..

Fact.. there is no value system, their are no such things as morals... there is no ideology as good and bad.. There are things that work for what we want.. and have instinctive urges/needs for.. and there are things that do not.. at the root of this is how you find the reasoning that the work or the play is going to have to be decided upon...Even in that you begin to realize the words Work.. and Play and the value placed upon those seem to be drawn to others ideals and bent so they fit the objectives.. when its all a part of surviving and living.. good nor bad.. All of it relative ourselves.. then someone says don't be selfish.. yet you don't even have enough for yourself to even know of its existence...You get disgusted with each and every word...

I think somewhere in there.. it was about the focus of a man or woman.. who had nothing but could do this.. whatever this was.. Undesirable ... beaten.. almost ashamed.. constant failures... worthless to most .. angry..but could do that one thing... It becomes everything they do and all other elements of the human existence died.. Everything normal came to an end and we found out how we can adapt and change to do so much... and then we became exploited.. tested.. monitored.. and a system in which keeps the natives at bay.. and gives just enough in return... to keep them there.. It become too easy to fail and easy for others to change.. We found distraction in trying to find a better way.. which was still relative to the basics.. and then few were killed... replaced.. and we needed a scapegoat..or a reason why... We found a new type of Fire to hold over their heads in awe.. and servitude..

Fact of the matter is that we created a system which you have do this or do that to survive, hord.. plan, circumvent.. and be rewarded with little pieces of paper which say we can get something else without having to know how to make it.. or fix it.. or spend hours and hours a day on.. and we can go and enjoy that.. Nobody cares about how you got it along as your passing it along... as long as we have what we need to have a good standard of living and dwelling then we are fine.. When it falls face down .. we go.. BAD. by all terms of the definition.. Luting, burning.. raping, stealing... manipulating the system.. manipulating people because everyone knows you'll be punished if you do that so they would never suspect... people are taught to believe and think inside the box.. We have time slipping away from our lives, our youth .. our appearance and our existence everyday... we don't have the time to mess around with this failure.. ( what the hell is it to use if its not doing what it should to begin with.. ) we have to feel what we need to feel.. and satisfy our instinctive drive.. our very mechanical make up .. in how we work..internally...what we are .. and to stay happy and survive... We have nothing to captivate us ... all we see is it failing.. maybe even ourselves failing... and yeah you would think that out of all of the hundreds of thousands of people that go to work each day to run a government.. that something would break the cycle.. and it would break free.. but it doesn't fit the whole picture in what we really live in.. and all some have to even work for is the hope that someone will eventually one day have a balanced existence.. Their needs will be taken care of.. and that in some way each small undervalued thing they do will help...

I don't think I could ever cover it all.. I mean what do you really see out there.. in people.. on what level are you even aware..

I wrote a bunch of crap.. don't know why... bottom line.. government should have stopped at a certain point.. instead it is allowed to crossed the lines and used to back things and areas which it should have no involvement.. on a civil side... yet at the same time so much of a problem can be made that something has to settle it so that everyone can move on.. Like a person that is constantly instigating.. and asking questions and almost seems to have nothing more than the objective to distract and stop you from doing what you need to... You have to cap it.. or remove them all together.. to some degree you can teach.. but anything outside of your investment.. is concerned and outside any reasonable acceptance of intelligence an understanding.. you have to change it.. On some degree people bring it on themselves...

If your going to have a government.. Yet not maintain it and keep it where it should .. Regardless of what lines are pushed to have power from that entity.. ( which wouldn't need to be had if it wasn't wrong to begin with in some cases - others an objective nobody understands ).. and still once again want something to just run itself.. and allow it to run all over in any direction to make anyone happy.. then you have an issue.. While a constitution may state what it is supposed to be.. where to all of the elements mentioned in the spoiler above.. come into play.. Out of all of the things we do.. can we not fix it.. Why will it not change...We look for its protection in many things.. why are we blind to it.. and how hard is to be.. is it time.. more of the same... are we only trying to serve our own interests ourselves.. ( read the spoiler first )..

I dunno why I wrote all of this.. I think its because of my ultimate failure... I wouldn't even be concerned.. otherwise.. what becomes the most disheartening... and probably the most pronounced of the elements I think of... All some of us have are few glimpses of better memories.. and times... we can flood it with all of these things to relieve it... all of the things we can trade and sell.. and share and .. w/e... Sometimes I think we just have to be happy and move on .. let someone else in on what seems to be so rare in existence.. and we can hope that .. it will survive.. that something real still exists.. somewhere..

We make the mistake.. of looking for something PURE.. within something dynamic.. that encompasses every known element within the awareness of a life... It never will be... and if it was there would be no appreciation of it.. there would not be a value placed ... without knowing where it stands in relativeness to our existence.. on that scale..

[CODYQX4]

We make the mistake.. of looking for something PURE.. within something dynamic.. that encompasses every known element within the awareness of a life... It never will be... and if it was there would be no appreciation of it.. there would not be a value placed ... without knowing where it stands in relativeness to our existence.. on that scale..

I'd definitely agree there, that if everything were fine always without problem we wouldn't appreciate it. I think we have to have terrible days to truly appreciate good ones, that we have to have a conception of hell to appreciate heaven, etc...

The point I meant to make is that things will always be flawed, governments from democracy to dictatorship all create some ideal and legitimacy for their right to exist.

In the end I feel it is individuals that create conflict. People going in their own direction. When individuals begin to pull in opposite directions things fall apart. When people in government seek to better themselves they put the betterment of the governed down a bit. However it is human nature, we are all individuals at many times acting for ourselves, sometimes at the expense of others.

I simply think that we should not have anyone in power long enough, or a system in place long enough to get too greedy, complacent or corrupt. When we formed the constitution and the US government we got rid of colonial control and started democracy here. Sometimes the best way to improve something is to tear it down and build it up with the best ideas of the time mixed with new ones. We have term limits on the president but a member of the senate goes 6 years and can keep going forever if reelected (and most people only care about the presidential elections). I think that since politics and economics are a dirty game, the honest are crushed by those who will break the rules. Eventually you get an entire corrupt senate (who actually makes the laws, people blame Bush for alot but forget that congress approved it all), that has the collective power to do just about anything regardless of what the constitution says it can.

Power corrupts, plain and simple, I don't think anyone can keep hold of power and remain honest and free of corruption. The way it works is that the people who can best keep their power over time are the ones who will misuse it, which is why every now and then I feel the slate needs wiped, reelect/reappoint everyone, nobody associated in any way shape or form to those formerly in power, right down to the lowest and simplest position.

[HX1]

In the end I feel it is individuals that create conflict. People going in their own direction. When individuals begin to pull in opposite directions things fall apart. When people in government seek to better themselves they put the betterment of the governed down a bit. However it is human nature, we are all individuals at many times acting for ourselves, sometimes at the expense of others.

Yes..

I simply think that we should not have anyone in power long enough, or a system in place long enough to get too greedy, complacent or corrupt. When we formed the constitution and the US government we got rid of colonial control and started democracy here. Sometimes the best way to improve something is to tear it down and build it up with the best ideas of the time mixed with new ones. We have term limits on the president but a member of the senate goes 6 years and can keep going forever if reelected (and most people only care about the presidential elections). I think that since politics and economics are a dirty game, the honest are crushed by those who will break the rules. Eventually you get an entire corrupt senate (who actually makes the laws, people blame Bush for alot but forget that congress approved it all), that has the collective power to do just about anything regardless of what the constitution says it can.

This is something I thought in passing.. caught me.. and then the mental distraction of .. ' Who in the hell is going to change that..ALLL F$%^ up.. ' Your completely right... I think it gets lost in between the campaign they get to run on TV.. while in congress of what they represent and the thing that states that they represent the people of that state.. So the idea that they also could be re-elected term for term.. and it be representative of that democratic system.. It goes unchanged... Its a horrible flaw... The same exact ideology.. problems.. lack of concern or focus on different times is completely lost... When change or a new idea is introduced.. there is an upheaval.. Decisions made on the spot.. but are people allowing the discernment of these guys go unchecked because they don't understand.. or is it because they leave him there forever trusting what they call 'experience' to make a better judgment call.. ( and truthfully where is at .. being a congressman or directing the nation in a positive path for everyone... ) What truly represents a bigger well of resources in away.. Someone out in it.. knowing how hard it is to get a foothold.. or someone who has a steady job... and lived well for quite awhile... Listening to wealthy individuals.. business owners.. corporation owners.. and big names to backup their name and campaign... Where is the fresh view.. with a consult... of things to think about.. from an experienced eye.. unbiased.. and unconnected in anyway? .. within that though you have the same vicious cycle..

I completely agree...

EDIT: One thing I wonder about though sometimes... and I do understand to some degree.. is raising the GNP.. I can see on that note business getting involved... and I hope some efforts are being realized out there.. so just to make a note I am not saying its all bad.. One element of our gross worth globally that drives inflation.. ( which seems to be backward deal all together sometimes )

[Alanon]

Constant revolution, anarchy... Indeed, there have been many attempts, but I would not agree that we can do without law... In a nation, any nation, there has to be a body to save or to blame, in great part because the masses are not an intelligent organism. A firm hand is needed to sever things when they get too ugly or bloody, just as the people feel safer when there's a man they can ''trust'' leading them. The Greeks had their kings elected in pairs so as to prevent any one of them seizing too much power, thus maintaining order. When Rome was a Republic, there were always two consules at any given time. In times of war, one would stay in the city, while the other one led Rome's armies. That way, again, they prevented the consul in Rome of staging a coup, for the other one had the force of the state behind him. And yet, both Rome and Greece, or Macedonia if you will, reached their climaxes not as republics, but as dictatorships. It did ruin them in the end, but they have developed into something they never dreamed was possible. Britain, a relatively small kingdom, grew into an empire in which ''the Sun never sets'', and yet, with some bad choices, lost its supremacy on land, sea and air... My point is that all throughout history, people were more comfortable seeing one man behind a state, no matter its size. After all, can anyone say that Napoleon was anything but brilliant? Or that Hitler wasn't a genius and a madman, for it is no mean feet to seduce an entire nation? Having a single figure in charge increases bot the good, and the bad in human nature. Hitler built the strongest economy ever seen, Stalin built the strongest nuclear force, but each on the blood of their respective peoples... Many say that capitalism is only good because nothing better has been found. I believe, however, that there is nothing new under the sun. Political regimes and ways of rulling are all the same, and have just been given different names... What we need, I feel, is a dictator with honorable intentions, for the situation of the world can only be changed through a revolution of some kind. The misuse of power will always be a risk, for pollitics, more than any other discipline that man created, tends to destroy or brand its opposition (Just think how many times have you seen Che Guevarra on a t-shirt, and actually wondered who he was, or why is he dead?), erase all other forms of itself or label them as folly and unapplicable, except the one currently in use.

[bashar]

you know what is sad about talking in politics these days ?!

you end-up everytime , with the same Word giving to u

You are anti-semitic

:sneaky:

ding , i'm not sure it's even politics sometimes , it's just giving the people it's right !

[ck_kent]

Power corrupts, plain and simple, I don't think anyone can keep hold of power and remain honest and free of corruption. The way it works is that the people who can best keep their power over time are the ones who will misuse it, which is why every now and then I feel the slate needs wiped, reelect/reappoint everyone, nobody associated in any way shape or form to those formerly in power, right down to the lowest and simplest position.

Amen to that! Like Benjamin Franklin said "Politicians are a lot like diapers. They should be changed frequently, and for the same reason."

Here in our country, after a politician's term of office ends, they would let their wife/husband, son/daugther, or anyone related to them run for office just so their family could stay in power. Politics here became business. Politicians, once tasted power, it's not about what's best for it's constituents anymore but what's best for them.

[CODYQX4]

I think it should be built into the system that those in power are there for a short time and then replaced, without the need for revolution. Cap everyone's terms, limit terms, don't allow consecutive terms (Virtually any president gets his second term automatically, 2004 hit and disapproval of Bush spiked as the economy went to hell and less people supported the war on terror, but he got his second term and yet everyone I know counted down the days he'd be gone)

Also don't allow people connected to those in power at the time to get into place, they will make deals and take bribes to get their position to put policies into place those losing power to lose.

It takes a person some time before then can be corrupt or do things. They try to get support or praise. Every president will say they will cut taxes or not raise them (even if raising taxes is necessary for the long run success). They will act like they are truthful then go around and raise taxes or give 99% of the cuts to businesses.

The businesses then exploit all tax loopholes (because nobody gets and stays rich with 36% income tax and craploads of corporate taxes). Then the burden is placed upon the people who haven't cheated on millions of taxes (like those in power). Throw everyone out once they become too established. Give them enough time to implement policies that are good, then get someone else. A bit inefficient but just about the only way I can think of to maintain a government that isn't 99% corrupt. I'd rather have a government that is slow and inefficient at trying to improve society than one that is efficiently skilled and quick in screwing over me and every other citizen.

[HX1]

I have over the past few days found a site that sort of reflects views on Politics and addresses global issues as well.. http://www.change.org/ On this site you can sign petitions and get your voice heard on many subjects.. I am passing this on to any of you who would like to get involved in one way or another and actually take action to have your voice heard .. as it should be.. where it would apply..

[shought]

Bumping this up again, I enjoy reading your views :)

[shought]

Ok guys, I hate to break the news to you, but democracy sucks.

I started talking about this some time ago in this thread and argued that 75% of the people in a country are not able to rule (that percentage is probably much closer to 100, but anyway). These people do somehow have to know who is capable of ruling the country, which seems like a hell of a job to me... Adding to that another 75% (might be the same, might not be the same) of the people are not even interested in politics and just vote for a party 'because they always have', 'because that one dude said something cool on TV' or 'because someone gave me a badge'.

Why do these people get to vote?

- Well, we're all equal, we all get to vote!

First of all, we're not all equal, second: by casting a not properly informed vote someone could impose limits on my freedom (because the government that will be there wouldn't have been there otherwise, making different laws and the like). So someone is imposing limits on my freedom without even being properly informed? I hope NOT!

- You're right, how do we fix this? Obligatory politics courses? Only allow people with a certain degree to vote?

Nope, not practical nor fruitful. All we do is this: we take one piece of every party's political agenda, or they provide it to 'us', we take from that the first three 'arguments' or 'points' (the main points) and we poor those into simple A, B, C questions (with two answers which are completely wrong (answers from opposite parties, for instance), and one answer which is completely right). Then when one goes to cast his or her vote one is asked, after voting, to answer these three questions about the party they voted for. If one fails to answer one of these question, ones vote is DESTROYED, 'please try again next time'.

This would ensure that people have at least a basic understanding of the party they vote for (and really, some (I won't cut my fingers by going into specifics, but a considerable amount) really do not understand what they vote for).

Later on we could just add some basic IQ testing to these questions to ensure we don't let monkeys vote, but let's just not consider that for the moment :P

(For Dutch guys around here, no, I did not steal this idea from Guido Weijers, I've shared this idea with many people before he ever mentioned this in one of his try-outs... (Yes, really.))

[HX1]

First point.. we should not have separate parties with mixed agendas... a public servant is a public servant... This is the main problem.. A split is two supposed agendas.. which started over two puss-gutted over-worked guys fighting about who was the best candidate.. Within this struggle we see a separation in views... Through this separation came several aspects which segregated objectives, perspectives and viewpoints.. and how thing would be done because they had to be differently from the other guy and seem better..as the generation/cycle begins.. individuals views about how this should be taught, seen, and occur .. AND mainly how to go about doing it.. has been categorized into different groups...

Now in the mix of this.. we have a mixture of emotionally based perspectives, focuses and objectives which speak to certain aspects of the party ( which ever it may be ).. and in some cases becomes something simple as first come first serve.. and debate between them.. a war of individual who probably spend more time flying their own flag ( or wiping their ass with the other guys ) instead of focusing on resolutions to problems which need to be addressed.

People through their own nature have over-complicated a process.. and basically have created the same basic structure which has plagued country after country for centuries..

Final point... the only thing that should speak as to the decision making process is in fact the ones who are capable of doing so. Though the basis of this argument in many cases... there is only one objective in being a part of the government and the process to begin with.. It is simply what everyone s after.. The ability to be so fallible on this level when putting the people in power.. and also laying the responsibility of those decisions on their backs.. as well .. ( Because we wanted to be liberated from mother England - taxes and control ) We wanted to be empowered to make these decisions on our own.. and in fact if the general public is not informed .. or active.. IF these elements are hidden or malformed in any way.. then what do we have.. End point what division will keep this aspect at an elevated level? Division between parties.. Idealisms that are presented to represent and overall tone from one side or the other..

This is one aspect that keeps many people in the dark.. not to mention when we go vote we have to choose each one individually.. and we have to be informed about everyone f these people.. and what their qualifications are... How do they properly submit application... Or has our government become quite primordial in the fact that we throw our contestants all in the ring to see who will survive the lion.. To wait for the gladiator... I mean is this suppose to teach these people how the world will evilly take hold and what to watch for... or is to teach them what they must be to survive it.. and the intrinsic casualty of that existence and what it will entail...

The current system which is in place for many aspects of our infrastructure, way of thinking and manner in which we still g about things is quite barbaric ... and is after the fact in many cases... We still use a system of barter and trade in effect since we 'crawled out of the caves' for God sake...

We have every option to empower ourselves.. and others.. we have the intelligence to create a system which will filter through all of the things we don't want all in an effort to improve ourselves and make for a better tomorrow... but do we look straight past the real answer.. the cause of the problem.. its origination and where it has sprouted its roots and taken hold... The problem itself can blind us to what we need to do.. ALL too often we hear it is too much.. and will never happen.. That people will never have it... Again from a place of distrust and ignorance which has been planted and traumatized into our existence and even disabling us from making the right choice.. and dong the hard work needed...

I wonder if it is that they really are afraid of what a change of this nature would do for people and how they live and operate today.. if the fear is in what they will be able to do and how well.. if they are afraid to sacrifice it all to have something better... Is it that this broken dysfunctional and shameful representation of a something that is supposed to be a professional representation of how we work through keeping our government and this machine turning and running.. are they benefiting from it.. is it giving them the time to try to make things happen because of how well they ( the infrastructure and its aspects ) do not work... To be able to coordinate and get things going... How much dissension is really afoot and in place and how much will it take before we run in the streets and starve to death.. because it has just fallen down the stairs like a child with cerebral palsy....

The idealism itself is from the place where we all do in fact .. decide what our government does and what it does not... For the people and BY the people... Backwards to the people themselves being able to make the correct decisions and what 'full around and encompassing' is getting in the way of that happening..

The country united in one thing and with one thing only in the beginning.. United in obtaining our freedom.. Today however we almost are there again because of this wonderful idea we came up with... We ignored the fundamental basics.. and what has been allowed in this country... Decisions and laws made which in the end infringe on the very basis of its creation... Problems which have left alone for so long I would be willing to bet nobody would even know what I mean here..

Our basics.. which some said were inadequate ( which has been exploited to all HOLY hell ).. provide the fundamentals in which to govern ourselves and make decisions based on them.. But hat do we do? We choose division where we need a place to find an accord... Through various different perspectives we say well what if we were stupid and didn't think about this, or that... AND it's made into immediate law.. because of a situation which has occurred at some point in time.. or even something that has drifted around in someone's head for years...

We accept debate.. the entire process of misdirection.. which takes the wheel and steers away from our objectives and focus, so that something else can go on.. while it takes 10 times as long as is filled with a hundred times more confusion...

We have the capability to make proper decisions and go from what we need and want.. But can we unlearn what we have been taught.. Can we really overcome the problems we have gained through learned behavior and aspects pertaining to? Can we put aside or selfish little greedy neanderthal hearts to obtain something higher and better..

Anyone can be an entertainer... anyone can be a showman and convincing speaker.. Things can fill right.. but will our ruin be allowed to come from the chemicals swimming around in our heads which make us who we are? Will you be swayed? Did you ask yourself why you have decided what you have when it came time to vote? Did you have a second thought? How about before.. with every war-torn broadcast over and between each candidate.. and each party allowed... ? Did you worry you were doing the wrong thing...

Do you wake-up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat wondering?

Bottom-line this country is not really a country for all people.. The USA is not a land of hope and dreams for everyone... its in the ands of the majority-rule.. If this said majority and the culmination f it populous becomes so ignorant that it cannot make decisions to properly focus and govern themselves.. it will fail.. and likewise.. for something that works..

This country is supposed to protect all people even those who are not in the majority -rule category.. regardless of what may come into power these fundamentals are to be protected and upheld by these public servants at all costs... This is to keep the country civil, livable, and a land of freedoms which are to be guaranteed... It is not to be a country that can decide to simply segregate against a color or sexual preference.. a subcultural influence.. or create a cultural divide.. It stood for emancipation.. not imprisonment or death.. which is what it was threatened by in the beginning and in every way by many powers that have fallen in the past..

I think that even the people themselves may think in some cases that within intelligence itself, is progression to adding to what we have.. Yet I see time and time again where this becomes quite a problem... and within that issue itself.. While we exercise these rights.. and work for the best.. as it was pictured.. It has become so hard to do so.. that nobody will ever have the clarity.. nor the stronghold that was once held... The very definition of what was to be... how it was to be done.. why... Instead today we seem to be dealing in the meta-physical... a battle of other things... while our world is rotting and dying around us.. We are fixed in the same cyclic behavior with no new decisions, no new offerings.. things which are the very heart of what keeps it alive.. Made in the image of man... it represents us well... Just as fragile.. just as wrong... just as broken over time as we can become... We have to feed it something .. to keep ourselves alive...

Why wait again till its too late.. why does it have to remain the same... Daily we have problems which arise.. We have things we need to fix.. They cannot be ignored or simply patched... anymore and who knows how easily it will fall.. I mean what has it come down to...

What is going to OWN you next...

The government needs to be analyzed.. disclosed in some way.. I don't mean on FOX and I don't mean on WikiLeaks I mean with true whole-hearted objectivity in facing and correcting our issues..and the problems need to be shown.. No party of individual would want to do this.. because again of peoples ability to understand it.. BUT I am willing to bet everyone would be glued to the tube to watch it... Within these real issues.. and problems to be faced . there will be priorities that need to be addressed.. of this.. resolutions need to be examined and decided.. Forget which party they come from or whom.. Is it OUR ANSWER or not...

Where would we all be with that.. How many people do you know make sound decisions...within there business.. or have considerations that work for the future?

How well will people actually be able to understand it... We ave to face the real issue.. Not by overthrowing the system.. but by making a movement to change the crappy tools we have today... We need something that would make an idiot .. and artisan... We need clarity not more war... Put that shit on with your headphones and focus the energy into working that fat ass off.... This isn't what we need.. its wrong for what we want to do here...

Anyway 4 MB of text later.. I just .. I have thoughts on it...

EDIT: Bottom-line here.. is that while this may have been a good idea and can even be used to even work for us by facilitating better ideas.. and solutions.. it has grown to the point that it is and has become a proverbial 'wrench in the works..'

[shought]

Related to this stuff ;)