WhatsApp Soundly Beaten As Stunning New Alternative Goes Live

[steven36]

While on the surface WhatsApp remains king of the messaging hill, beneath the surface there are some worrying signs for Facebook’s flagship platform. With its 2 billion users, WhatsApp can seem unstoppable, but it has some weaknesses in its functionality—in the way it works. And, above all, it has one dealbreaker for many—its Facebook ownership.

 

 

 

So, what are those functionality weaknesses? Well, there’s the continued lack of genuine support for multiple devices—the option to link apps on your phone, tablet and PC to a single account. Then there’s the serious flaw in its backup option, which is required to transfer message history to a new phone. Those back-ups fall outside WhatsApp’s end-to-end encryption—and that’s a critical issue. 

 

WhatsApp voice and video calling are excellent—fully encrypted, perfectly integrated with its messaging, single-click calls for the groups we use daily. But those calls—video or voice—are constrained to our smallest screen devices. And that just doesn’t work anymore. WhatsApp knows this—multiple linked devices and desktop calling are reportedly in the works. But, in the meantime, we’re turning to the competition. 

 

All of which makes WhatsApp’s much smaller, but much more exciting, upstart rival Signal a potential giant killer in the space. Signal is the modern-day messaging disruptor, seeking to repeat the trick WhatsApp itself carried out all those years ago, before the Facebook acquisition.

 

Signal was designed to put security first, that’s its USP—WhatsApp actually uses a tweaked version of the Signal protocol itself. And historically this approach made for a clunky Signal user experience. But all that’s now changing. Signal is on a mission to take on the mainstream. And if you haven’t tried the app yet, you really should.

 

Back in August I reported that Signal was beta-testing voice and video calls from its brilliant desktop app—a genuine app, not the web-based smartphone scraper offered by WhatsApp. Signal also offers a seamless iPad app. There’s no need to keep your smartphone switched on or connected to access Signal from other devices.

 

Signal’s new desktop calling feature is now live—go try it for yourself. 

 

 

Desktop video calling  Signal

 

This is much more important than it may sound. It emphasizes the multiple encrypted endpoints available in Signal, it showcases convergence—playing a convenience card to the new work from home workforce. There may not be backups with Signal, but these other encrypted instances provide resilience in case you lose your phone. And the platform appears flexible and nimble in contrast to WhatsApp. You’ll struggle to find a tech or security reporter recommending WhatsApp over Signal these days.

 

The more material factor, though, is what happens next. Facebook is caught between a rock and a hard place with WhatsApp. Tempted to introduce new monetization and advertising options, it knows that a user backlash will follow any overstep. And the likes of Signal and Telegram are watching and waiting. Signal is fast approaching the critical mass required to be a viable alternative for any WhatsApp exodus.

 

On the desktop calling specifics, Signal has started with person-to-person calls, but group calling is clearly in the works. And while this is all part of its campaign to take on WhatsApp and Telegram for the secure messaging space, it also seems to have bigger video conferencing targets in mind. “We think that calls need to zoom out of the past and into the future,” it says in its blog post.

 

Working from home and enforced distancing has exponentially increased our use of video calling. Zoom, Teams and Google Meet, as well as Facebook’s new Rooms reflect this. And underpinning this new way of working is a new level of convergence between messaging and calls and an increasing need to operate seamlessly from smartphones to tablets to desktops or laptops. We are inevitably less mobile, we want to access these apps from a laptop or tablet we may be using, and not be switching to our smartphones while at home.

 

While the headline threat to WhatsApp likely comes from Apple’s continuing evolution of iMessage, which already offers seamless cross-platform access, and Google’s RCS rollout as an update to Android Messages, both have serious issues. That’s because both integrate with the pitifully unsecure SMS architecture. Apple’s end-to-end encryption only works while messaging users on its own ecosystem, and Google has not yet added any form of end-to-end encryption to its RCS deployment—another feature reportedly in the works.

 

Signal now offers multiple device access, desktop calling, fully encrypted message history transfers to new devices, disappearing messages—another feature WhatsApp still has in the works. Furthermore, it is more secure than WhatsApp—its encryption deployment is openly viewable, it doesn’t collect any metadata, it isn’t owned by Facebook nor is it about to be integrated into a gargantuan marketing-meets-messaging machine. The integration of Facebook’s various platforms—Messenger, Instagram, eventually WhatsApp, is bad news for users.

 

WhatsApp remains the mainstream messenger of choice for most users. You’ll find all your contacts most likely already there, it’s easy to use and reliable, its security is good enough for 99% of its userbase, it offers a backup option (security caveats apart) for those that might lose their phones and need to restore their history. 

 

But this is an equation that’s changing. Signal is extremely compelling, and its user experience now beats WhatsApp in many ways, from simple emoji replies to seamless multiple device access. And on the security front, there’s no contest. Facebook’s collection of WhatsApp metadata—who you message and how often is a grey area. Conversely, Signal’s lack of any data collection is black and white.

 

It’s all starting to stack up toward a shift away from WhatsApp.

 

Unsurprisingly, while Signal user numbers are measured in tens not hundreds of millions or even billions, it is now soaring.

Source

[Sylence]

web-based apps are the future. this guy doesn't know what he's talking about, dissing web apps like that.

 

web-apps are make once, use anywhere. same experience across any devices with a browser.

[steven36]

Don't everybody live in a browser  I  never touched  a  what's app , Sgnal  or Telegram  , 7 countries  is  wanting  to back door big tech's encryption so right now Signal  a much better alternative because it's open source if  they put  back door in it  security researchers can see it .  you can use  that close source  rubbish  if you want but im not touching it.   WhatApp  is just a Signal  Clone  It uses Signal engine . I  never used Phone messengers   if it wants  a phone  number on desktop  i don't use it. 

 

It's Like Chromium  and all it's clones  none will really  be useful unless Google  breaks  ad block extensions  and  then only the ones with built in Ad block will be useful .  But  the problem Chromium Clones  VS  Chromium  is Clones  give  you a new set of  bugs  on top  of the ones it all ready has  in it's virgin state.  I use  Firefox  mostly  but they all be adding this and that but never fixing  bugs  .It not just me who say this  about Chromium Clones  lots of  people say it that use them ,go read some comments on blogs  that talk about browsers Firefox is much more stable. But you have your Chromium Clones fanboys  who dis  them because of features they removed .  Waterfox  Classic  still has those old features  it the most slowest browser i have. 

 

 

I have some web apps  but  if i have a internet outage  they useless  same as non webapps that use the internet  .  Nothing  in life is guaranteed  so you should not  take software code for granted  .what rises  will fall. My  games  and offline audio  and video players  still works  but without internet if i want to chat  i may as well buy a 2 way radio or something . If web apps is the wave  of the future  why dont Windows 10s  or Chrome Books sell  good?  only Schools in the USA  will  buy them.  Only  OS   i seen with web  apps that get lots of users  is on smartphones and More's law catching up with them now.

 

 

That was  Microsoft's  idea  in 2015  to bring there phone apps  to Windows 10  and Windows 10 Phones . Problem was no one much used Windows Phone . They lost billions on it  and had to write Nokia off on there  taxes  as  a total loss  and lay all there Phone Division  off. Windows 10 started  out with bankrupt  ideas so  they ended  up pushing it  and its byproducts as  a Enterprise  Software suite.  If  they would  had a crystal ball i doubt they would  took a risk  and  Windows 8 and Windows 10  would turned  out more like Windows 7 .

 

The whole  UWP thing was  a  bad idea   Steve Ballmer came up with it started  out as Windows 8 metro  to work on  Windows 8 phones  and they been trying to figure out  what to do with it every since.   Around  the same time  Ubuntu  was doing the same thing  they had  to stop  they was   not making no money on Smart Phones  and Unity DE  . 

 

Now M$ is grasping for straws to get  XBOX on  IOS  so  they going  copy  Google  Staida   and have people  living  in there browser playing  games like i did in 2001 on Yahoo  lol . the court  done ruled they not lifting  the ban on EPIC games. But they not going let apple  ban Unreal engine  ether so they stuck.

[halvgris]

even with possibly back door who's going to monitor and benefit from it ahead of time for monitoring 2 billion users.

 

after a crime it might be relevant but it doesn't prevent crime in any way. 

 

i only know 1 of my friends that uses whatsapp regulary another used it to wifi call me from abroad. i do however think it's for facebook users.

 

 

 

[steven36]

22 minutes ago, halvgris said:

even with possibly back door who's going to monitor and benefit from it ahead of time for monitoring 2 billion users.

 

after a crime it might be relevant but it doesn't prevent crime in any way. 

 

i only know 1 of my friends that uses whatsapp regulary another used it to wifi call me from abroad. i do however think it's for facebook users.

 

Ask all them people over in   Afghanistan and Pakistan that ended  up in  a prison in  CUBA  ran by the NSA  and CIA  that were chatting   online  back after  9-11   before  the masses got encryption. who's going to monitor them. You  ever here of Edward Snowden  and Prism? Him exposing  5 eyes had the internet taped was what caused the rise of encrypted  apps  . I  chatted  on Yahoo and others  for years without encryption they never bothered  me  lol.

 

I live in  the USA and remember  what it was like  they passed  laws to invade  peoples privacy because people  was so scarred of another 9-11  they didn't care . It was not tell Edward Snowden  in 2013 they woke up. NSA went unnoticed for 12  years.

[halvgris]

steven36 i know that but it would required live agents monitoring specific traffic.

 

to monitor 2 billion users would require quite a lot of man or girl power to say the least.

 

besides this doesn't stop people to send encrypted messages within the app itself or attach message onto an image file.

 

[steven36]

3 minutes ago, halvgris said:

steven36 i know that but it would required live agents monitoring specific traffic.

 

to monitor 2 billion users would require quite a lot of man or girl power to say the least.

 

besides this doesn't stop people to send encrypted messages within the app itself or attach message onto an image file.

 

 

They got 7 countries   wanting  to back door them  the USA   already has the FBI   using anti  terror  tools  on cellphones  to stop civil  unrest  , with the election and Corinavirus were on a brink  of  civilwar here just the other day some guys try  to  over throw a state goverment  Michigan luckily the feds caught them before they  done it.   

[halvgris]

yes one win in 2 billion messages / users.

 

not much and as i said again if you really want to override their programs watching everything.

 

i could and anyone else can send encrypted messages they would never see, how knowledge in tech since 1990. tools that are widely available and free on the internet.

 

can i just give props for the forum upgrade with night mode. i'm shy of bright light.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[halvgris]

signal only supports ios 11 while whatsapp supports ios 9.

bad programmers and a shame for users.

[steven36]

30 minutes ago, halvgris said:

yes one win in 2 billion messages / users.

 

not much and as i said again if you really want to override their programs watching everything.

 

i could and anyone else can send encrypted messages they would never see, how knowledge in tech since 1990. tools that are widely available and free on the internet.

 

can i just give props for the forum upgrade with night mode. i'm shy of bright light.

 

 

I dont think you understand how  this works   they  dont  have to track  2 billion people at  once  

 

Quote

As part of investigations, authorities are physically taking your phone and taking the data from it as you see the same now. Also, the backups stored at google drive are not encrypted. Once you are booked, they will get access to both of these from your phone.

If  you  get on there radar  if  they think you done something even if you didn't  then they will  monitor  you and  even entrap you  .they have to have a reason  to do it but if  you talking to someone who they after you get caught up in   a drag net  That the way it was before encryption. All they have to do is  be able  get face book  to log you  and if they have a backdoor  they can go back a year latter and see what you said. that how they caught  people on yahoo.

 

Quote

Yahoo! Chat/Messenger: Data including friends list, archived communications, time, date and IP address logs.

https://ngm.com.au/yahoo-law-enforcement-requests-customer-data/

26 minutes ago, halvgris said:

signal only supports ios 11 while whatsapp supports ios 9.

bad programmers and a shame for users.

That dont  mean there bad DEVS  they all kinds of apps  were they stop making for IOS  because of apples stupid rules .Use a compatible  device .

[steven36]

Originally Answered: How long does WhatsApp keep the delivered data like images or etc. in the server?

The problem with centralized "secure" chat programs is that your security depends entirely on company's word. There is no algorithmic security in place preventing them from not keeping their word. They are only bound by legal terms and that in fact doesn't mean much:

• Governments can manipulate the legal system, change the laws, create exceptions, force judiciary for their agenda. So legal terms do not protect your data against governments.
• Adversaries can infiltrate into corporate infrastructure and grab the data stored, bypassing legal terms entirely. Legal terms don't protect you here either.
• Corporations can themselves ignore their own promises for a greater benefit (financial, strategic, competitive advantage) which they think overweighs the risks of injunction. Legal terms only work if you know that's happening.
• Technical oversights, mistakes can cause the legal terms to be violated without anyone (even the company) knowing.
• A malicious employee with access privileges can retrieve the data by risking violating the law.

As you can see the answer to your question is "nobody can know for sure", because nobody can guarantee that any of those aforementioned events will not happen. The correct question would be "What's WhatsApp's claim on how long they keep data on their servers?". The answer still wouldn't be very meaningful.

Certain encryption algorithms on the other hand can mathematically guarantee that the data cannot be decrypted by any third party residing in-between. Apps like Signal use such techniques (see https://whispersystems.org/). That does not make your communication 100% secure though. Someone can still "hack" the software (the app or the operating system) or the hardware (your phone) and intercept messages before they are sent or after they are received.

EDIT: When I wrote this answer, WhatsApp had not yet implemented the end-to-end encryption mechanism of Signal. Although its over-the-line encryption is solid now,

WhatsApp can still be compromised. They started sharing metadata with Faceobok too. So, better but not invulnerable.

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[x3r0]

Jeez, so much for advertising. I'm not defending WhatsApp whatsoever, but a better product doesn't always translate into a winner. The reality is: WhatsApp hasn't taking any beaten yet. Unless they get hit by major/serious scandal, its ecosystem is very large - many of others app uses it to send their official messages, many of the trusted website offered communication via WhatsApp other than official emails (mostly customer services), many outlets, retailers, uses WhatsApp to communicate to its clients, a lot of people uses it every (your friends, colleagues, your families, your neighbours, your government uses it - good luck suggesting them moving into another platform). So please, many of its alternatives sure does have their own ecosystem as well, Telegram, Wire, Signal, iOS messaging - or like WeChat, Line, may vary from small to large too, but they don't beat WhatsApp - yet.

[steven36]

1 hour ago, x3r0 said:

 The reality is: WhatsApp hasn't taking any beaten yet. Unless they get hit by major/serious scandal,

Yes its a app with 2 billion  people  not a darn one of them i know in real life but its been around since  11 years   .Look at TikTok its  only been around  since 2016  it has 800 million users  and already  been ban by 2 countries pending 3 . If Facebook dont  give them that backdoor they want what you think  going happen to them ?

 

Fact is   WhatsApp was made  by people  that  were at Yahoo   so  i didn't trust it  even before Facebook  bought it . Both Yahoo and Facebook  had Massive  scandals  it messed Yahoo up but it dont seem to  be effecting Facebook  very much.

 

Facebook says they  have 2 billion users if you believe  that i  got ocean front property in Arizona   ill sell you. Fact is most phone messengers are fake numbers   even  . 

 

 

 

Even Facebook itself that want  real names 16% are fakes or duplicates . But  phone messengers  they  have people  who make up lots of accounts  to spam you   same as they use to have bots that made up yahoo emails  for spam  bots and booters  they even have a Whatsapp Spam Bot  at GitHub . Its like  Yahoo was  most users are bots.