Microsoft agrees to randomise browser choices

[nsane.forums]

Company could abandon set order for shuffle mode

Microsoft has reportedly introduced a plan to shuffle browser choices as part of its ongoing legal negotiations with the EU.

Reports from both Bloomberg and The New York Times cited internal sources in reporting that the company would randomize the choice of browsers users are offered when installing an operating system.

Such a system would put all of the suggested browser choices on equal footing and prevent Microsoft from being accused of favouring its own browser when offering customers the choice of what they use to surf the web.

The ordering issue had been a point of contention among critics of Microsoft's deal with the EU. Some have argued that by setting up the order to offer Internet Explorer first on the list or by burying top competitors at the bottom of the order, Microsoft can continue to manipulate the market.

Microsoft has been working with the EU to finalise a deal and put a formal end to its antitrust dealings in Europe over the inclusion of IE with Windows.

Dating back to the mid 90s, the company has been accused of illegally undercutting its competitors in the web browser market by bundling Internet Explorer as a free component within Windows. The issue was a central tenant to the landmark antitrust decision against Microsoft.

View: Original Article

[Bizarre™]

M$ should have removed IE integration a long time ago :bag:

[Night Owl]

Most average people don't even know what a Web browser is. When Google went to the streets of New York, most average people had no idea what a Web browser is.

Source:

[RadioActive]

M$ should have removed IE integration a long time ago :bag:

And why on earth should they do that? It's THEIR OS, it only makes sense to include THEIR products. If anybody doesn't like it they can install whatever they like. The whole "antitrust" thing is a load of BS, just because their products come pre-installed with the OS doesn't mean they force anyone to use them.

[DKT27]

It's simple. By includin it in their OS their are tryin to instruct the n00b users to use it. If I remember it properly. For about two years of my internet usage, I wasn't knowin that there is any way to start internet browsin except from Internet Explorer. Now that defines a lot. If they wanna include IE then they should also include FF and Chrome.

[LeetPirate]

It's simple. By includin it in their OS their are tryin to instruct the n00b users to use it. If I remember it properly. For about two years of my internet usage, I wasn't knowin that there is any way to start internet browsin except from Internet Explorer. Now that defines a lot. If they wanna include IE then they should also include FF and Chrome.

Personally I disagree, it's their OS they should be allowed to put whatever browser they want. What should happen is they should allow you to fully uninstall IE (which I think is possibly on Win7). Once they allow you to choose whether you want to install IE instead of forcing it on you then that should be fine.

Look at the counter scenario, now they want MS to include open source stuff in Windows but the minute MS uses open source for other things they kick a fuss. Example is the MS usb download tool to be able to install win7 from a usb flash drive.

You just can't please everyone.

[Night Owl]

Look at the counter scenario, now they want MS to include open source stuff in Windows but the minute MS uses open source for other things they kick a fuss. Example is the MS usb download tool to be able to install win7 from a usb flash drive.

You just can't please everyone.

The problem wasn't that Microsoft used open source software for their USB download tool. The problem was that they violated the GPL agreement, and then they added on their own restrictive licensing terms.

Source 1: SuperSite for Windows

Source 2: Ars Technica

[manpe]

Is Chrome OS also forcing Chrome browser? In this case they should be targeted too

[DKT27]

If it is doin so then yes. We should also protest against them. You know I really feel that Chrome OS wouldn't be anywhere near Windows. Lets see what they come up with.

[RadioActive]

It's simple. By includin it in their OS their are tryin to instruct the n00b users to use it. If I remember it properly. For about two years of my internet usage, I wasn't knowin that there is any way to start internet browsin except from Internet Explorer. Now that defines a lot. If they wanna include IE then they should also include FF and Chrome.

Actually, by including programs such as IE and WMP they make the life of novice users much easier, because they wouldn't even know where or how to get different programs and let's face it, IE/WMP work good enough for any novice/average user, usually only power users would need different/better applications.

Personally I disagree, it's their OS they should be allowed to put whatever browser they want. What should happen is they should allow you to fully uninstall IE (which I think is possibly on Win7). Once they allow you to choose whether you want to install IE instead of forcing it on you then that should be fine.

Look at the counter scenario, now they want MS to include open source stuff in Windows but the minute MS uses open source for other things they kick a fuss. Example is the MS usb download tool to be able to install win7 from a usb flash drive.

You just can't please everyone.

Agreed.

Is Chrome OS also forcing Chrome browser? In this case they should be targeted too

duh! AFAIK the entire ChromeOS is built around the Chrome browser which makes sense, why would they use a different browser if they already got one of their own?

[LeetPirate]

Is Chrome OS also forcing Chrome browser? In this case they should be targeted too

Chrome OS "is" Chrome browser. From what I have read, it is just a Linux kernel that boots up and loads the Chrome browser. It was meant to be this way for fast boot up. Chrome OS is only meant to work on on specific devices like netbooks etc. Basically when you are walking around with your netbook and you want to browse the net you boot up in short time instead of having to wait for Windows or other OS to boot.

@DKT: Chrome OS wasn't meant to compete or be like Windows at all, I'm not sure you would even be able to install any other programs on it. We'll see how it goes I guess. As for right now, Chrome is a specific OS whereas Windows is a general OS.

[HX1]

So wait... all I am reading here is another monopolization accusation against Microsoft for trying to create a whole package right? I agree with Leet.. if someone wants to un-install IE then they should be able to.. unless components in the OS are dependent upon the aspects of the engine/program itself.. In which case it would be hard to integrate other browser engines.. I accept that..

And really as far as instructing a n00b.. I mean if someone is THAT unexperienced .. then maybe they should have their steak cut up for them before they get to the table.. How much browsing do you really have to do anymore before you hit a site or ad for another browser? Like one maybe two sites.. Personally I think it does nothing more than put the crazies at ease that somethings not getting to big and overpowering.. and they can't fight it... Paranoid and scared .. or even aggressive from a business standpoint.. attacking the other guys the only way they know how.. Regardless of how IE is viewed and used ... and opinions.. I don't think people should be lazy enough to actually suggest a browser be installed.. but only the one they want.. I mean how are they going to get online anyway if they dis-include a browser? Beats me.. ( or wait ARE WE ASKING FOR BLOATWARE... )

Okay let me just call up Microsoft right now and tell them what I want on that.. Every piece of software configured to my liking using telepathy and psychic future-seeing powers.. all the advanced options, always able to do anything.. no mater what the configuration of use.. and I want t to be powerful enough I don't throw tantrums and hurt myself... Next I want everlasting hardware that will never fall out of date or be obsolete.. Oh and while your at it I want my system to do exactly what I am thinking of so we will integrate the telepathy right into the board.. I never want to see an installer .. have to worry all those hAaaAaaRRd questions when installing .. huUuUhhh.. and I want real-time realization of questions and information ... I want it to do that..

One day.. people won't even know how to operate keyboard.. but if that what we have to do these days to stay in the market well I guess we'll take your change too..

I mean legitimately .. does it sound that short-sighted.. I mean people stating it, or saying it.. as it does to me. I mean there can be security concerns but how long until its fixed.. a week.. month.. or six months to a year? ( in development and testing as its looked past? ) I mean I am laughing all through this in a way...

[DKT27]

I don't want to get into a argument that has no ends. But offcourse they have right to put what they want but what if the consumer finds it not useful enough? And yes, I'm totally angry that they don't allow XP users to uninstall IE or even open Windows Update site without it.

And just for keeps. I don't know if it uses IE engine or not but I remember the time I was infected by a virus and I didn't had a XP CD to reformat. In that time, I was not allowed to even open IE because of that virus. Now I was not knowin anythin about FF or others. What I did was, I pasted the url into windows explorer and guess what? it behaved like a browser.

[HX1]

Yeah I always wanted to go to Microsoft Update with FF.. then I started writing code and wound up having to have all four major engines.. so it wasn't so bad..

[LeetPirate]

I believe XP and prior OS were tied to IE browser. From Vista onwards they have tried to separate them which is why the new windows update does not launch a browser anymore. I don't know how well it works because to be honest I never tried to completely delete IE becauseI use it sometimes when FF is too cluttered with 3 rows of tabs opened.

[DKT27]

@Leet: Have you tried usin Faviconize Tab addon for Firefox? :wub:

[LeetPirate]

@Leet: Have you tried usin Faviconize Tab addon for Firefox? :wub:

never heard of it b4, what does it do?

[DKT27]

Faviconize Tab:

Works with Firefox: 3.0 – 3.6.*

This extension adds a new "FaviconizeTab" option to the context menu of the tab.

When it is clicked, The width of the tab becomes small up to the size of favicon.

It returns to the former size when "FaviconizeTab" is clicked again.

* Feature list

** Quick Faviconize

[Ctrl,Shift,Alt] + Click or Double click on the tab.

** Auto Faviconize

automatic faviconize. (URL that you specified)

- Faviconize is not released even if it moves from URL specified here to another page. Please return it by manual faviconize.

** Session Store

Saving faviconize status, when closing firefox.

- Set [built in session restore feature] if you use TabMixPlus

[SacredCultivator]

If it means anything... on Win7, you have the option to uninstall IE... thing is... if you check your Program Files it's still there. Double clicking doesn't do anything... can probably delete the folder for all I care, I haven't. But yup, removing it doesn't actually remove it entirely.

[Bizarre™]

And why on earth should they do that? It's THEIR OS, it only makes sense to include THEIR products. If anybody doesn't like it they can install whatever they like. The whole "antitrust" thing is a load of BS, just because their products come pre-installed with the OS doesn't mean they force anyone to use them.

Did I say remove IE altogether? I just said remove browser integration.

Once they allow you to choose whether you want to install IE instead of forcing it on you then that should be fine.

At least someone gets my point.

[poipoi]

Browsers mainy mattered once upon a time because so many users didn't change the default home page they opened to.

This allowed significant advertising revenue for whoever created the browser. And at the time, this was one of the most profitable things on the web -- that's why it was such a big deal if you used IE or Netscape, for example, and why they really fought over it.

At this point, most people know how to change their home page, or how to find another browser if they really want to.

It makes sense for MS to include some form of access to the internet -- their own. And it makes sense to set it up so it can be easily removed -- they now do that.

What should occur is simply mandating that the default home page be blank, or at least something that can't generate revenue directly. But all this ongoing stuff about browser choice and antitrust and whatnot is somewhat irrelevant given how and why they were issues once upon a time. If anything they should be much more concerned about privacy info places like MS could be accumulating far more than the fact there's a web browser included with an operating system.