irefay Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 None of my normal places have have had Windows 7 Retail Releases... Thanks most likely to everyone using RTM releases instead. How sad. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HX1 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 7 Ultimate Retail ISO installable BETTER .. appear soon.. I had to wait almost two years and it was after SP1.. to get the right ISO for Vista Ultimate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpua Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 None of my normal places have have had Windows 7 Retail Releases... Thanks most likely to everyone using RTM releases instead. How sad. :(What's the difference between an original RTM ISO from say Microsoft Technet (copies of which are available all over the net) and a retail copy of the ISO that you buy in the store? Nothing afaiac, except fancy laser holograms on the retail DVD. However, I did get a copy of the retail DVD's from being a launch party host. Haven't had a reason to use them yet since I also have a copy of an untouched original ISO installed on a bootable USB flash drive. It's untouched except for my removing the ei.cfg file which makes it allow me to use this installation media to select and install any version of windows 7 x64 I want.RTM = release to marketing = retail iso. Any changes made since RTM have to be acquired via Windows Update or by downloading standalone updates from MS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HX1 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Well lets put it this way.. using SP3 RTM for XP as an example.. build 5512 was available EVERYWHERE as well and people were installing it...I downloaded it checked the Checksum.. installed it and well I found out the hard way.. my system started to bank 100% CPU usage after about three days of use.. and it malfunctioned with ESET.. writing a HUGE 2-4 GB size file on my hard drive.. when I finally shut it down and tried to reboot it stated that I was missing some files needed to be present...( of the Windows OS ) I essentially had to fix it the hard way to keep from doing a fresh install.. that September..because I wanted to wait until it was released through Microsoft Update anyway.. and wait till March to get the actual final release and not the RTM.. RTM says its ready but there will be small changes to the retail as it has been tested and will have compatibility features.. this is the general difference between the two....Not to mention usually updates to that point are usually included..So retail is usually a better bet IMO.. especially with things like the problem that I experienced.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpua Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 This is not XP. 10 years have passed since XP. At this point in time, with no W7 service packs yet released, no updates are included in retail. It's exactly the same as RTM. You can believe what you want but that is the fact of the matter. It checks for some updates during the install and the rest are installed after the install is completed and the user boots up for the first time.Btw, I have installed W7 over a dozen times and got my RTM from Technet. Yes, you have to verify the checksums to make sure whatever you find online is "untouched." Do that properly and you will have no problems. There's no point to comparing XP to W7 b/c it blows XP away in every respect, once you get used to the interface changes and where everything is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HX1 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 My point was not comparing the two..my point was the development process and the differences and changes that can occur with ALL software..an example was the release of XP SP3.. to clarify..nothing more..The release of a service packs that goes through the same process with the same company is no different ..IMO.. also stands for In My Opinion.. in other words.. basically what I am going to do as a consumer... I had rather have the Ultimate real final then be sitting on something unfinished..hacked/jacked/scribbled and screwed..Incidentally you pay to be a part of Technet.. and to be able to get releases as a developer before the rest of the public.. for testing and for IT preparedness.. You also get final releases...if I remember the outlines of the membership..correctly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpua Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 My point which I'll try to make again is that the RTM versions are the final release. They are exactly what is in the box that you buy at Walmart or wherever. No difference. None. Nada. Exactly the same, unless and until MS releases a Service Pack for 7 and slipstreams it into the installation disks, which they have not done as of yet. So the fact that XP RTM is different from XP you buy today that has SP2 or 3 slipstreamed does not yet apply to Windows 7. So if you have an RTM release that is really an untouched RTM, it is exactly the same as what people are buying in the stores today.Believe it or not, this is the fact of the matter, not imo, but actual fact that can be easily verified. All updates that have occurred since the release of the RTM versions must be obtained through windows update or standalone updates from MS. These same updates must be obtained by people who buy the retail box because there is no difference between what they are buying and the RTM release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HX1 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Okay whatever you say.. Do what you want.. I will do what I want..wasn't the case with Vista...( Dispute that and I will bring you documentation from the site.. MSDN.. and several other places directly from Microsoft...I may take a while to gather but I will, was well documented ) major changes maybe not to the release number itself...or build but to various internals.. I simply do not and refuse to trust an RTM...or RC.. or Beta..If I am going to learn about.. and test to improve as I did with Vista.. for improvement of the product and bug reporting then I will... but none of these will ever be what I install on a system I use..I do this with several products.. I use my Connect Dashboard and follow the invitations.. and do what I can to help the development of software ( including Office 2007 ) as well as the OSes ( Vista, SP1, SP2 and XP SP3 )..RTM does and is supposed to mean Ready To Manufacture.. but that does not keep the company from making final changes and updates to the system, its drivers available on install or several other elements .. which for one.. was one of the things that was done for the release of the OEM version.. so that manufacturers can work out final incompatibilities with hardware and drivers.. which goes both ways for the company and the manufacturer at the end point..Anyway wish you the best with your RTM version... B)EDIT: If I wanted to go this route I would have a free version until March or April of next year with a serial/activation directly from Microsoft.. but thats not what am going to do..Its not what I am going to install on my machine.. not what I am going to give my family.. not what I am going to install for people..when they activate with their purchased serial/activation codes.. I want the correct version reported and all to go well .. like a final product with no problems down the road..and definitely not a pirated copy..the will have to struggle with to maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpua Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 You are very confused. . . . Specifically, you are confusing the "RC" or release candidate with the "RTM" or release to marketing version. There were many RC versions leaked to the web (which would work with the RC keys that MS gave out to everyone) before a version was finally certified to be the RTM and the so called "gold" code was then frozen at the RTM stage. The RTM can not be activated with the RC keys (unless it is cracked which turns it into an RC version again). But believe what you want.The RC is the version that has an expiration date next March or June. The RTM, once again, is the version that was shipped out to the company that manufactures the actual retail DVD's for MS and was also provided to computer manufacturers so they could prepare for "GA" or general availability (which was yesterday) and have machines on the shelves loaded with W7 ready to go on GA day. It took several weeks to make those retail disks and they were made using the final RTM "gold" code. The RTM has no expiration date and for legal activation requires a valid retail or OEM key or VAK (Volume Activation Key). MS did not give RTM keys out to everyone like they did with the RC version.But don't take my word for it. Why don't you google "RTM" or look on Wikipedia or search on Windows Seven forums where this question has been discussed to death (and answered). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM18 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 RTM means Released to manufacturer... companies such as dell who install them on their systems before they sell them, not Ready to Manufacture as you think. It is the final release Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HX1 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Well I have yet to find a topic that I can comment on .. or state my position or what I am going to do..yet that you don't attack or dispute ... so I really don't see any point in dis-associating this with any fruitful conversation..for the end point of the forums existence.. Doesn't even make any sense...its like regardless of Microsoft's documentation you want to come after me..This is the POINT of the previous post..Okay whatever you say.. Do what you want.. I will not install the last thing free before marketing.. I don't do RTM.. Please do not reply to me in the next post..just be done with it, as I am.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpua Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/30651-w7-ultimate-rtm-7600-w7-ultimate-retail.html#post321984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellohello Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I am so glad they are the same. Else I need few days to download the new ISO. If from torrent, my connection will take forever lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HX1 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Okay all right.. humor me this one thing..IF you are going to promote RTM versions that are available and tagged from everything from Technet to whatever out there....Could you PLEASE also post information on how an individual will protect themselves from downloading previous versions, tampered releases...and other items of the like..Its been my experience that even through sites meant to bring the latest.. that links, torrents and other items.. have been more of a harm than good..Giving members the information on how to make sure their version of RTM or when looking for a version of RTM...on how to make sure that it is valid.. and correct...that would be of help.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpua Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Now wait a minute. I never said all the so called RTM versions floating around on the net are safe or genuine untouched unmodified copies of the real RTM. You need to find out the real hash values of the genuine MS article which can be found in the FAQ of the site I linked to above and use a free app like hashtab to compare the hash values of whatever you have downloaded from a torrent to the hash values of the genuine article and make sure they match. That's the only way to be sure you have downloaded a genuine unmodified copy of the real RTM. Anything cracked or preactivated is probably dangerous, imo, and I personally would recommend avoiding such torrents. The OS is one thing I like to have genuine on my system and W7 is so good it's worth paying for, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irefay Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 The problem with RTM releases: the loaders need to alter the bios to show that the box is what the RTM is distro'ed to. Ie if you have a Dell RTM, the loader makes your bios say that the box is a Dell.Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpua Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 The problem with RTM releases: the loaders need to alter the bios to show that the box is what the RTM is distro'ed to. Ie if you have a Dell RTM, the loader makes your bios say that the box is a Dell.Is this correct?TBH, since I have a legit copy, I haven't paid much attention to how to crack it so I'm not the one to ask about this. But hopefully someone else here at nsane will be able to offer some good infor and advice on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrEzi Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 The problem with RTM releases: the loaders need to alter the bios to show that the box is what the RTM is distro'ed to. Ie if you have a Dell RTM, the loader makes your bios say that the box is a Dell.Is this correct?Not totally true.If you need a complete description I would need to describe also how the OEM-markers are applied in BIOS, how manufacturers do it etc.So if you need it - PM me and I'll explain it more. Below only some basic info.The loader uses a GRUB-environment to load before the actual OS loads. There are several loaders circulating on the net - some are good some worse and have problems with non-standard setups (i.e. no ~100MB hidden partition, RAID setups, different OS location etc.)All (or nearly all) loaders use the same method - they load an SLIC 2.1 pubkey + marker into memory (that is where the OEM info is stored),some of them also install a matching certificate for the pubkey+marker combo in the Win7 and change the product key to an OEM SLP key which enables the system to be activated automatically.Please note that the loader acts very similar to what an actual BIOS-Mod and Manufacturer-OEM-Bioses do - since the RSDT table is also loaded into memory in a standard BIOS (so-called BIOS-shadowing) it is very hard from software-point to verify if it is a soft-mod hard-mod or manufacturer-oem-mod (the last one is the 'genuine' done by manufacturer).Of course there are ways to verify if e.g. any bootloader was applied, so the safest and hardest to find are the bios-mods.You can PM me and I will provide you with a link to the forum which does bios-mod requests and where you can also learn more about all the loader-mod-bios stuff :)or if a Mod/Admin will let me - I would post a direct link to the site/forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jalaffa Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 The RTM versions of Windows 7 leaked by wzor.net 22. July matched the ones being available at Technet as an official release. The loader stuff discussed here is rather irrelevant I think, since it has to do with patches / fixes and that is another ballgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpua Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 That's right. I'm still running that version. I saw no point in changing since the hashes of the main installation file (install.wim, or something like that) matched up with the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioActive Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 So, both the RTM and the the Retail has the same build number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jalaffa Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 That is my understanding of it. Any proof needed I'll provide as a Technet subscriber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpua Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 So, both the RTM and the the Retail has the same build number?Yes, because they are exactly the same code. Please read the link http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/17893-faq-commonly-asked-stuff-about-windows-7-a.html"4. What is RTM, GA, Retail, and OEM?RTM is when the code is completed and signed off. GA, or general availability, is when that RTM'ed code is finally made available to the general public. Even though there is a full three months between RTM and GA, there is no difference between the RTM code and what you get when you get Windows at GA. The RTM bits are the GA bits. RTM is "we're done with the code", and GA is "we're done with the packaging, distribution, marketing, etc., and are read to sell it".When GA comes, you can get Windows in two flavors: retail, which is what you buy at a store, is a less restrictive license (you can transfer it between machines, as long as only one machine is activated at a time), and you are entitled to support from Microsoft. OEM is a cheaper license, that you get when you get Windows bundled with a PC or if you buy a "system builder" copy from places like Newegg. OEM is cheaper because it's locked to a system (you can't transfer your license to another machine), and you are not entitled to tech support (the person who built your computer is responsible).Generally speaking, there are two types of OEMs: regular and "royalty". Regular OEM is what you get when you buy a "system builder" OEM Windows. Except for the label on the disc, regular OEM discs are the same as retail discs, and they install the exact same bits as a retail disc. The difference is not in the disc, but in the key: if you activate Windows with a OEM key, that key is forever tied to your system, whereas if you use a retail key to activate, you can move that activation to another computer in the future.The big PC makers like Dell, HP, and Sony are classified as "royalty OEMs" by Microsoft. They will often customize their disc by including logos, extra drivers, and/or hotfixes. Their discs will also include a special certificate that Windows uses to authenticate your computer's BIOS (which lets the royalty OEMs use something called SLP, which sorta allows them to bypass the hassle of activation)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkirian Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 So, both the RTM and the the Retail has the same build number?Yes, because they are exactly the same code. Please read the link http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/17893-faq-commonly-asked-stuff-about-windows-7-a.html"4. What is RTM, GA, Retail, and OEM?RTM is when the code is completed and signed off. GA, or general availability, is when that RTM'ed code is finally made available to the general public. Even though there is a full three months between RTM and GA, there is no difference between the RTM code and what you get when you get Windows at GA. The RTM bits are the GA bits. RTM is "we're done with the code", and GA is "we're done with the packaging, distribution, marketing, etc., and are read to sell it".When GA comes, you can get Windows in two flavors: retail, which is what you buy at a store, is a less restrictive license (you can transfer it between machines, as long as only one machine is activated at a time), and you are entitled to support from Microsoft. OEM is a cheaper license, that you get when you get Windows bundled with a PC or if you buy a "system builder" copy from places like Newegg. OEM is cheaper because it's locked to a system (you can't transfer your license to another machine), and you are not entitled to tech support (the person who built your computer is responsible).Generally speaking, there are two types of OEMs: regular and "royalty". Regular OEM is what you get when you buy a "system builder" OEM Windows. Except for the label on the disc, regular OEM discs are the same as retail discs, and they install the exact same bits as a retail disc. The difference is not in the disc, but in the key: if you activate Windows with a OEM key, that key is forever tied to your system, whereas if you use a retail key to activate, you can move that activation to another computer in the future.The big PC makers like Dell, HP, and Sony are classified as "royalty OEMs" by Microsoft. They will often customize their disc by including logos, extra drivers, and/or hotfixes. Their discs will also include a special certificate that Windows uses to authenticate your computer's BIOS (which lets the royalty OEMs use something called SLP, which sorta allows them to bypass the hassle of activation)."That explains a lot!Thank you for your excellent explanation!Regards,Valkirian18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioActive Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 So, both the RTM and the the Retail has the same build number?Yes, because they are exactly the same code. Please read the link http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/17893-faq-commonly-asked-stuff-about-windows-7-a.htmlJust what I wanted to know, thanks :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.