Viaduct ? Vya no leenooks ?!?

[smallhagrid]

(Maybe that should be 'vya no penguin' instead ???)

I have something that is a pet peeve and a favourite subject at the same time=>

It's how best to go about crossing the distance between windows & Linux.

Referring to windows I mean XP and earlier in it's classic forms - and NOT vista, 7, 8, etc...
The folks who want, need and demand such newer stuff really don't give a hang about Linux.
That's OK too, because somebody needs to like all that 'modern' stuff, right ??

Not me, thanks.

Right now there's a load of hoopla about XP support ending - to which I reply...yawn.
BUT:
This would be a great time for the Linux heads to be attentive.
Instead they also seem to mostly say...yawn.

There really, seriously NEEDS to be a very direct road to help all those orphaned, frightened former XP users get straight into Linux quickly and painlessly.

There's a bunch of Linux distros that are very friendly and easy - Mint, PCLinuxOS, Lubuntu, Mageia - there's even a Linux XP and a Puppy variant aimed at XP, but none are really a direct, easy, comfortable path for former XP users I think.

I spent a bunch of time with ZorinOS as it's screams about being 'The gateway to Linux for Windows users' - which is BS as it is buggy and aimed at MODERN windows users mostly, like Gnome 3.
This is not what I am interested in at all.

Searching on "linux for windows users" can be interesting, but the results are not so good.
( http://www.88searchengines.com/?q=&exact=linux+for+windows+users&with=&not=&file=y&file1=&occ=&ADVAN=1 )

Mostly what comes up are reviews for ZorinOS which is a waste of time.

Other searches like "linux for windows users", winux, "linux xp" bring even less or worse results.

Bottom line - most of the Linux world likes to give only small attention to windows users while wanting to gain more users - so they're really missing the bus.

I saw this time coming so I worked at finding a way to use both Linux and XP together for myself - but it's not super easy and most folks won't want to do the work I did to get there either.

But that's just me - there's a HUGE number of XP users who are very worried right now.

If I knew enough of the things needed to do it I'd love to make a distro that could pretty much be a slip-in for XP users with a way included to make the interface even more classic (like win 2k pro was).

Sadly I am not skilled enough to do something like that - but if anyone else here knows about something I haven't found in all the checking I've done please jump right in here, OK ?!?

Edited March 29, 2014 by smallhagrid

[T0nyB]

Got to agree with you with this one. Having used Linux Mint 16 Petra Cinnamon for 2 weeks now - I love it. It's one of the best gateway Linux'is for Windows users. BUT the headache you get from not having wireless connection on older hardware, being that some, legacy drivers have been blacklisted and sometimes need to be installed too, drives a lot of people away. Sure it's gotten easier, having more graphical and user-friendly interfaces etc, but some processes are still TOO hard to do. Hence the low user-base. Is it really so hard to simplify Linux so much, that the regular, not so tech savvy user could use it? Sure, there are a lot of active communities, forums etc to get help from, but mostly it's quite hard to pinpoint the information that can resolve your problem at hand.

A lot of work to be done Linux-wise to attract even more people to hop on the "linux train". This is just my opinion on year of observation... And I'm not so skilled to make a distro that accomplishes that.

Edited March 29, 2014 by T0nyB

[dcs18]

Referring to windows I mean XP and earlier in it's classic forms - and NOT vista, 7, 8, etc...

The folks who want, need and demand such newer stuff really don't give a hang about Linux.

That's OK too, because somebody needs to like all that 'modern' stuff, right ??

In fact, not just somebody - but, most of us . . . . . . . . and we're already celebrating the impending demise of XP because now Microsoft and most (not somebody) 3rd party Developers can feel free to concentrate on innovating and delivering to not just somebody - but, most of us the kinda state-of-the-art software that performs crazy on mid-range and high-end hardware with utter disregard to the fuddy-duddies of yore.

[smallhagrid]

Dear Dcs18,

If you wish to think anything at all is a group called 'MOST of US' (whomever that may be), I think that is great - good for you.

Inclusion is very comforting for those who require the comfort of social groupings and I wish you well in yours.

Clue:

This thread is about Linux - and how it really needs to attract more users - and is doing a less than stellar work of that.

Kindly avoid hijacking it to make it about something else entirely. Thank you.

To anyone who prefers a touch-screen device with a cartoon-like interface:

I salute you. I congratulate you. I wish you well.

(I and many others will not be joining you in using such things though, thanks.)

Back to Dcs18 for a second...a question for you:

If some uber-rich guy who is the head of a social club points a finger at you and says=>

'You - I declare that you are dead.'

Will you oblige him quietly by dropping dead right then & there ??

(If you did that willingly I would be very surprised.)

What is being pointed at the older OS you insist upon attacking is NOT death - it is merely shunning.

A bit of historical perspective which relates very directly via similar roots:

Another (and much previous) OS was also shunned rather than rising to widespread usage;

Do you know which old, forgotten OS that I refer to ??

(Hint=> it is not a *nix based OS.)

It is still very much in use right now - very quietly in mission critical settings because it is utterly reliable.

It is also what most of the classic windows interface design was copied from.

Most likely you never even saw it - and it is very unlikely that you ever used it yourself for any length of time.

It was wonderful, with great features - too bad most folks never got the chance to use it for a while for themselves.

And what was that OS ??

OS/2 Warp 4.

The world's greediest pirate company copied most of that OS's interfacing features for their landmark OS remake.

If you guessed that one to have been win 95 you got it right.

Those folks are NOT innovators, pioneers or inventors & never have been.

They ARE the inventors of the one thing they cry about all the time though=>

Piracy.

Perhaps it is their ostentatious wealth while being such open pirates that makes them so much the envy of so many.

Speaking for myself - I do not envy that bunch - nor do I wish to be a member of their social club.

Now - getting back on track here, about Linux...

It is very much easier & much more friendly than it once was, but is still missing some very homey touches that 'us' former windows users tend to miss...

Animated cursors. There is no easy way to make them as nice & easy as they were in windows.

Sound schemes. Background changes. Desktop folders with application icons.

Little things that can be lived without, but just the same - things which tend to make any desktop environment more personal.

Desktop. Yes - that is what I said - again ??

DESKTOP.

Tablets & other handhelds are rising dramatically in adoption & usage.

Folks like to tote around their tech gear.

Good, if that is their preference. This does not change the utility of desktop PCs one bit.

What has actually already died (very quietly...) is the 'notebook' form factor.

It's first mortal wounding was the netbook form factor, and this was finalized when the 'ultrabooks' emerged.

The clamshell design idea is cumbersome and more demanding than anything which is truly hand-held.

(Aside of these facts, it can be easily copied with a handheld by way of add on accessories, if desired.)

Presently the available evidence seems to indicate by the numbers that most handheld devices are using Android - which just happens to be a Linux-based OS.

I am not a google fan by any means - but I do salute them for the smartest & most successful move any Linux developer has ever made to encourage it's widespread acceptance via Android.

Tablets are really neat gadgets too. (I don't have one myself, yet.)

As many have said before me=>

The desktop PC is not going away anytime soon.

Linux is not going away either.

These are my platform & form factor of choice and these things do all that I need for them to do for me very reliably.

My wish, and the reason I posted on this topic to begin with - is that there could somehow be a very inviting & easy way for those who are facing the shunning of XP to find their way comfortably into using Linux as their daily driver OS.

This needs to be made easier, and it is my hope that it will be, somehow - and very soon.

Edited March 29, 2014 by smallhagrid

[dcs18]

Dear Dcs18,

If you wish to think anything at all is a group called 'MOST of US' (whomever that may be), I think that is great - good for you.

Inclusion is very comforting for those who require the comfort of social groupings and I wish you well in yours.

Clue:

This thread is about Linux - and how it really needs to attract more users - and is doing a less than stellar work of that.

Kindly avoid hijacking it to make it about something else entirely. Thank you.

Dear smallhagrid,

If this thread really was about just Linux you should've refrained from shooting your caustic barbs on Modern OS with specific reference to Vista, 7 and 8.

Next time stop lacing your middle-class posts with sardonic remarks - OK, thank you.

Back to Dcs18 for a second...a question for you:

If some uber-rich guy who is the head of a social club points a finger at you and says=>

'You - I declare that you are dead.'

Will you oblige him quietly by dropping dead right then & there ??

(If you did that willingly I would be very surprised.)

Dear smallhagrid,

You may aspire to question me, one day when you probably grow into bighagrid - I'm afraid today is not that day and tomorrow will never come.

[smallhagrid]

No giantism here, nor shall there be - that is correct.

There are problems specific to 'modern' OSes which are very nicely & actively driving folks away from them.

I happen to be one such myself and there ARE others here with similar opinions & tastes.

If an old desktop PC could run IBM PC-DOS & do the activities which I require of it I would be using that...

Since that is not seriously possible, I opt to step to a side and use an equally modern OS (compared to the newer windows in that it runs happily on new h/w...) which does do as I wish in the manner that suits me.

It is completely obvious to the most casual of observers that this site and those who enjoy it also enjoy a conspicuously consistent contradiction, and that is:

Those who wish to use the newest stuff while not wishing to enrich those who put it out.

I have no problem with any of that as I firmly abide by the truism that information NEEDS to be free.

Where I run into problems are as follows=>

- Profiteers who are actually performing by their own definition of 'criminal' in the interests of their greed;

- Anyone, anywhere who cries 'Pirate!' while covertly or otherwise profiting via dishonesty;

- Any action or device which decreases awareness, literacy or the long-term well-being of those who use it.

As I've already made at least moderately clear in this thread - I do not use nor do I favour things which exist at the level of "smartphones" (a terrible misnomer).

For most of 20+ years I have disdained & despised mikr0$0ft - since it became clear that they were behind the death of PC-DOS and other high quality products by way of clever publicity & open theft alone.

They did not discover or invent that made them rich beyond reasonable measure - they stole it outright, many times with the help of those they owned in the so-called 'legal system'.

None of this is any secret and anyone who is old enough to have seen all of it happen knows enough to know the above is truth.

That company has truly ever only done one important (but despicable) thing in the tech realm:

It originated & propagated what I prefer to call the EULA virus.

This life-level malware has found it's way into so many places as to be legion and has ruined many good people's lives as well.

So I say to all & sundry:

Enjoy whatever it is that you like best.

I and others may not share your tastes in all the 'modern', new-fangled stuff, but at the very same time do wish you well in any way possible.

In turn it is best that you wish those you see as being 'below' your modern level well also - and IF in all this if we help one another to have what each wants best, then it's all good.

To see a taste in things as a means to conflict because it is not YOUR taste is just silly.

We had better be friends here - or we are all lost.

All are entitled to their opinions and need to be free to express those opinions as well.

Seeing the opinions of others as a personal attack and having any need to attack because of that is also very silly.

These are mere words on a page - a means of expression, hopefully between friends.

I suggest that we keep it that way.

I'm off to examine more Linux-based goodness for my elderly XP-and-older tastes, so I say:

Enough for now. Peace Out.

Edited March 29, 2014 by smallhagrid

[MidnightDistortions]

I've been trying to get my '99 HP PC to run under Linux but it seems that every distro i try to use it freezes in some way or another. I think the only one that i had gotten working on that machine is Damn Small Linux lol. I haven't had any problems using Linux Mint on my laptop or my gaming desktop but i have an 08PC that keeps asking for my password when i haven't installed it yet. :duh:

Linux is great, but the average user will most likely prefer the next Windows or.. go Apple.

[dcs18]

Linux is great, but the average user will most likely prefer the next Windows or.. go Apple.

Moreover, most of the Windows Users actually hate Microsoft - but, their chief reason (amongst many others) in using Windows is the wide compatibility with 3rd party applications and programs. In fact, it's very common to find even Users of Linux & Apple dual booting Windows - the reason again . . . . . . . . . . Windows excellent compatibility.

Users of Windows have been pampered with this kinda royal treatment, so much so, that they'd pirate or even buy an upgrade - any upgrade as long as it's Windows rather than opt for a free platform with poor software support options and a steep learning curve boasting a laborious work-flow.

However yes, guess there are always exceptions to every rule and the odd XP User might still probe beyond Windows . . . . . . . . . . . at least, for the time-being.

[smallhagrid]

Hello MidnightDistortions.

100% agree with your statement that name-brand PCs generally suck and that it is best to build your own.

My experiences with Linux distros have brought me to conclude that -some- distors are just a mess and cannot be used at all.

That is to be expected as many distros are small projects and likely to have limited applications & errors in them.

(Some are not small and still gave me troubles - like Mint, which I finally gave up trying to even boot into.)

For me, when I've did have a PC that froze trying to boot from ALL distros, it turned out to be a marginal stick of RAM - and I was fortunate that PC had 2 sticks, and when I pulled the 2nd stick that trouble went away completely.

Another time I was having problems it turned out to be a flukey NIC that no distro could initialize and when I pulled that - all set.

(Later I put in a different NIC in it's place and that worked fine too.)

The worst time was one with an older mainboard I was trying to use with a minimal distro - and literally nothing would work on that one at all - so I changed to a different mainboard and that was all solved.

My conclusion is that Linux responds differently than windows does.

It really needs 100% good RAM, and may try endlessly to make some h/w go that will not work; but I also concluded that when I've gotten the h/w right it will sail right along nicely.

I'm guessing that it is possible you have some sort of similar problem with the h/w you have referred to here.

A shame you live so far away as I have some decent mainboard/CPU combos I'll be giving away soon & would be delighted to help you out if it were possible.

Edited March 30, 2014 by smallhagrid