More on Microsoft's SKU-morphic Windows vision and Start Menu might return

[Matsuda]

There's skeumorphism. And then there's SKU-morphism -- as in a few key next-generation Windows SKUs, which may morph before they debut.

As I've blogged previously, while Microsoft is moving toward a "One Windows" vision, that vision is more along the lines ofone Windows core, but multiple SKUs, or versions, according to my contacts. (SKU actually stands for stock-keeping unit, for those wondering.)

This new strategy doesn't necessarily mean there will be a different SKU for every kind of Windows form factor out there. Instead, as Microsoft moves forward with its "Threshold" Windows wave, there might be just a few Windows SKUs built on top of a common Windows foundation, I'm hearing from my contacts.

It's definitely still early days for Threshold, which is supposedly slated to begin arriving around Spring 2015. Given all the management changes at Microsoft, things could change. But here's supposedly what the Softies are thinking at this point.

With Threshold, my sources say, there could be three primary SKUs: A "modern" consumer SKU; a traditional/PC SKU; and a traditional enterprise SKU.

The modern (i.e., Metro-Style/Windows Store) consumer SKU would be focused on WinRT apps. (WinRT, in this case, refers to the API set at the heart of Windows, not the current Windows RT operating system that runs on ARM.) It may end up targeting ARM- and Intel-based devices both. It would be updated frequently by Microsoft through the Windows Store.

This SKU supposedly wouldn't be optimized to run Win32 apps. However, my contact said there's the possibility that on some PC-like form factors, there may be a "desktop" that is more easily navigable for keyboard/mouse users.

This modern SKU would be the SKU for Windows Phones, ARM-based Windows tablets/PCs, phablets and other kinds of tablets. Some PCs also may run this SKU, providing Microsoft with a more head-to-head competitor to Chromebooks, as these machines would be more secure and locked down (thanks to the way Microsoft built the WinRT/Windows Store model).

The modern SKU is what has previously been rumored as a forthcoming Microsoft hybrid Windows Phone OS/Windows RT operating system.

A more traditional consumer SKU would be aimed at the current PC market. This SKU would include a desktop and be customized so that mouse/keyboard users will be able to continue to have some semblance of productivity and familiarity with Windows. This SKU also would be updated regularly and often through the Windows Store.

There also will likely be some kind of traditional Enterprise SKU, according to my contacts, that would include all the usual business bells and whistles, like support for Win32 apps via a Desktop environment, support for group policy, device management and more. This SKU would be aimed primarily at traditional PCs, tablets and other devices and also allow users to run "Modern"/Windows Store apps.

The Enterprise SKU might end up being for volume licensees only. This might be a SKU that doesn't update frequently/constantly through the Windows Store. Instead, it might be subject to IT policies/approvals, making enterprise users who don't want silent, automatic updates a lot happier. Microsoft Windows chief Terry Myerson hinted at something like this during his recent Credit Suisse tech conference appearance.

There will likely be some additional device-specific Windows "Threshold" SKUs for embedded devices and usages, such as point-of-sale terminals, kiosks, etc., given that the Embedded team is now part of Myerson's organization. But these SKUs won't be offered directly to consumers or business users directly.

Microsoft is attempting to straddle a fence here and continue to advance Windows as a "modern" mobile platform, while not disenfranchising their huge existing base. The big takeaway here is there may be more concessions coming to folks who felt like Windows 8 went too far in turning Windows into a touch-first, tablet-centric operating system. To me, this is a welcome furthering of the changes that began more conservatively last year with the re-emergence of the Start button and allowance of boot to desktop by default.

Update: Here are a couple of related tidbits, courtesy of sources of Windows SuperSite's Paul Thurrott. Thurrott said he's hearing the revised Desktop will allow users to run multiple Metro appson the Desktop. That'd mean windows comes back to Windows. Plus, he's hearing the Start Menu might return, too, supplementing the currently Start-Menuless Start Button -- another plus for those struggling with the current Windows 8.x navigation scheme.





Source

Edited December 9, 2013 by Matsuda

[janedoe]

As I just posted here:

:omg: I am shocked! It's not confirmed but if this happens it will be a huge admission of defeat from Microsoft and also in one shot will kill all start menu replacement apps and also apps such as ModernMix, RetroUI etc. On the plus side it should finally stop people whining endlessly about the start screen and Metro and make them far more receptive to Win8.x (I mean, given the choice why wouldn't you move to Win8.x at that point as compared to Win7?)

[MidnightDistortions]

It's all talk, unless i see it in action i won't believe a word that anyone says, even if it is from Microsoft themselves. People have been tricked by hearing that the start button made a return, but when they realized it went to the start screen some thought they were tricked into getting 8.1. Though if they stated they wanted the start menu, not the start button which are 2 different things MS may have given users an option between the start menu and the start screen to begin with. But who knows considering MS is so determined to get the touch UI on every device.

[janedoe]

It's all talk, unless i see it in action i won't believe a word that anyone says, even if it is from Microsoft themselves. People have been tricked by hearing that the start button made a return, but when they realized it went to the start screen some thought they were tricked into getting 8.1. Though if they stated they wanted the start menu, not the start button which are 2 different things MS may have given users an option between the start menu and the start screen to begin with. But who knows considering MS is so determined to get the touch UI on every device.

I don't believe anyone bought Win8.1 thinking the start button meant that the start menu had returned too, but if they did they don't deserve any sympathy for being stupid. Other than that I agree what everything else you wrote 100%.

Edited December 10, 2013 by janedoe

[geeteam]

Thanks for the update... was late

[nIGHT]

I think MS is trying to removed (tablet OS for desktop pc) and correct (start button to startscreen link) the :shit: idea on its OS but from what I can see the consumers already found something better (SIB/SIB+ and the likes). Too late for MS to clean up its mess. :D

Funny, I see a similarity to this MS Threshold concept OS to an article that proposes a Windows RED concept. :think:

Edited December 10, 2013 by nIGHT

[janedoe]

I think MS is trying to removed and correct (start button to startscreen link) the :shit: idea on its OS but from what I can see the consumers already found something better (SIB/SIB+ and the likes). Too late for MS to clean up its mess. :D

I disagree. No 3rd party app is better than native code, and once the OS provides it OOTB why would anyone bother with these apps?

[nIGHT]

I'm not going to argue with you @janedoe.

I had that similar reasons that you post above until i realize that there is really something much better than an MS startmenu.

Edited December 10, 2013 by nIGHT

[nIGHT]

"Something much better than an MS startmenu" kind of posts were been discussed in the past threads.

Dig in and you might agree with us too.

I was one of those who opposed with it but later used 8/8.1 with an alternative to startmenu and now I'm a converted user. :yes:

But I don't settle with that either as a future proof way of thinking.

What I understand now is that try to explore what's the best there is and use it.

Never just settle and be contented for the default apps like MS startmenu without trying some other alternative.

Edited December 10, 2013 by nIGHT

[tezza]

I disagree. No 3rd party app is better than native code, and once the OS provides it OOTB why would anyone bother with these apps?

StartisBack+

General:

- Start menu has been rebuilt from ground up. It no longer uses code present in explorer; but! No features were lost and actually has been improved with new features and many fixes for bugs present in original menu code. StartIsBack+ uses LESS resources than native menu!

- Start menu utilizes start menu "soul" left in Windows; it's fully compatible with Windows 7 / StartIsBack settings and policies

- StartIsBack+ does not require a process or service to run, comes with support / translation for all Windows languages (where MUI is available)

- StartIsBack+ is better suited for tablets and convertibles.

Start menu:

- Start menu has been rebuilt from ground up. Lot of Windows 7 menu bugs were fixed

- Items in right pane can be removed or tweaked in-place (hold shift with right-click)

- Items in right pane can be configured as menu for more items (like Connect To)

- You can add your own folders into right pane by drag & drop

- All Programs can show folders before items

- Start menu configuration is much more streamlined

much more and gets better all the time

All users of StartisBack definitely do not want an MS start menu ;)

Tihiy :showoff:

Edited December 10, 2013 by tezza

[janedoe]

Never just settle and be contented for the default apps like MS startmenu without trying some other alternative.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing either, but can you tell me the advantage of an alternative third-party start menu compared to the original start menu from Microsoft itself, which is rumored to return in Win8.2/9? Does that mean you would use an alternative start menu app in Win7 too?

Start menu has been rebuilt from ground up. It no longer uses code present in explorer; but! No features were lost and actually has been improved with new features and many fixes for bugs present in original menu code. StartIsBack+ uses LESS resources than native menu!

A traditional start menu like SIB+ will of course use less resources than the start screen, because the latter has live tiles that use up additional resources. If (or when) the native start menu returns in Win8.2/9, it too will use less resources than the start screen. However, I want to delve into this claim by the SIB+ developer a bit further. AFAIK the start screen code is part of the Explorer process, so when Windows loads, the start screen code will be automatically loaded too. Now unless SIB+ is somehow unloading from RAM the specific part of the Explorer process that deals with the start screen, we will end up with <native start screen resource usage> + <SIB+ menu resource usage>. So while technically you can say that SIB+ uses less resources than the start screen does, if both are loaded into RAM then obviously the overall system resource usage has gone up. All this is obvious, so unless the SIB+ developer can prove that he is unloading the native start screen code in some way, there's no advantage in terms of resource usage when using SIB+. Anyone selling a product can claim anything; doesn't mean we have to necessarily swallow it all without questioning.

- StartIsBack+ does not require a process or service to run

Again I am confused. How does it run then, by magic? Even if it injects itself into the running Explorer process, that still means it depends on that process to run, and that on startup some SIB+ process has to perform the code injection. Either that, or it patches the Explorer executable itself, in which case I would never touch such a program.

Obviously you guys love SIB+ and that's cool. However since even before Vista I had started using Launchy to run apps super-fast using keywords. Ever since Vista and especially Win7 got an integrated start menu search option that's what I use now (along with the Run dialog of course), even in Win8.x with its start screen. I haven't used a mouse to hunt for a program in the start menu for years, so it doesn't really matter to me what the start menu or screen or whatever looks like. Couldn't really care less. Anyway, everyone should be free to use whatever menu system they please, but yes I do predict that demand for start menu alternatives (which only came up because of Win8) will die down drastically if the native start menu makes a triumphant return.

Edited December 10, 2013 by janedoe

[tezza]

Start menu code is still in Win 8 , AFAIK, Tihiy reactivated it by reimplementing the missing parts into the UI ,redirected through the DLL of StartIsBack. i just think it runs on

Edit

I have never seen any report that refutes any claims made by StartisBack, untill then in Tihiy i trust

Edited December 11, 2013 by tezza

[janedoe]

Start menu code is still in Win 8 , AFAIK, Tihiy reactivated it by reimplementing the missing parts into the UI ,redirected through the DLL of StartIsBack.

Yeah, so he's injecting his own DLL code into the already loaded Explorer process. Still won't reduce overall resource usage though if the start screen code is also loaded into RAM. Also AFAIK the legacy start menu code was removed in Win8.1, which is why SIB+ is an entirely different product that includes its own custom replacement menu code. Anyway, despite the claims I'm not saying SIB/SIB+ is a bad product - far from it! Just that if the Win7 start menu comes back to Windows, lots of people who don't like to run extra programs unnecessarily will see no need for such alternatives. However, let the rumors come true first and then we'll see, right? :)

[StartIsBack]

If Windows 8.2 really brings Start menu back, that would be great.

I'm only afraid they would half-ass their implementation like they did in Windows 8.1.

They need to steal Mission Control from newer Mac OS X:

- Start screen = Launch Pad

- Metro apps = Full screen apps

- Resizeable metro apps / snap = Multi-desktops

That would be awesome productivity boost.

Too bad it won't happen and we'll have to live with current half-assed UI blend plus some screwed-up Start8-like menu.

[nIGHT]

Never just settle and be contented for the default apps like MS startmenu without trying some other alternative.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing either, but can you tell me the advantage of an alternative third-party start menu compared to the original start menu from Microsoft itself, which is rumored to return in Win8.2/9? Does that mean you would use an alternative start menu app in Win7 too?

However, let the rumors come true first and then we'll see, right? :)

It's really hard to make an accurate comparison when the startmenu in Win8.2/9 is still a rumored news.

Why on earth they will not make a startmenu that will be much better than any alternative startmenu or their own old version of Win7 startmenu?

You can say they badly needed to recruit or attract a lot of people to upgrade to their Win8.2/9/Threshold product.

But knowing MS intentionally removed the startmenu and later mess it with a startbutton, they do discouraged users to use it anymore to promote their startscreen metro :shit:.

So when they do release it, the probability is high that it is not any better than these other startmenus alternative.

They got the idea, which most likely something like this happens in Threshold, that they will reintroduce metro again again (2x :lol: )and this time in the desktop itself to run using this new start menu.

It's still the same thing as what they did to the startbutton then, and that is promoting metro to boost sales of their wind0ws phone.

I have read in here or somewhere in the net that stardock's start8 been downloaded over 5 million in just a few months.

Start8 was released I think less than a month of the final win8 OS released.

They sold it under $4.99, multiply it by the 5 million downloads, we get $24M. That's just start8! And now that news is way old.

Now if ever MS will be able to come up with a really impressive start menu, then these guys will just try to come up with a much much better version of this new MS start menu. They know there is a market for it. They already earn millions from it. They won't let that just go.

But I don't settle with that either as a future proof way of thinking.

What I understand now is that try to explore what's the best there is and use it.

Never just settle and be contented for the default apps like MS startmenu without trying some other alternative.

I'll use the best and if MS will produce the best startmenu then I'll use it.

But if ever a startmenu product will surface beating MS and other startmenu like SIB then I'll use that.

I'll use it with Winstep Nexus, startdock fences and x-mouse (to instantly launch explorer).

Just that if the Win7 start menu comes back to Windows, lots of people who don't like to run extra programs unnecessarily will see no need for such alternatives.

I agree with you here. yes:

Many times I have said, in my previous posts, something like "Each has its own preference, let them be." :yes:

Edited December 11, 2013 by nIGHT